I'm so angry/upset...

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I don’t know if this belongs in the Cafe or not, but…</p>

<p>So I got my EW to Williams today, and I was super excited because it’s my number one. I woke my dad up to tell him, and started his usual spiel about how it’s only a “college” and not a “real university” like Stanford, Harvard, etc. (I’m Asian by the way). He equated Williams to Cal Poly Pomona (which if a fine school don’t get me wrong, my brother went there but not comparable at all) and it’s not special. And then he started getting mad at me because me going to MA will mean that our housing funding will be cut or something like that (I’m not sure if it’s true). He also tried to make me feel guilty by telling me that I’m abandoning them and that my mom’s going to practically lose another child (but this time not literally). Add to the fact, that my four older brother and sisters all went to school locally (all four withing a 20 mile radius here in Los Angeles), he basically told me I don’t love them as much as they did.</p>

<p>The argument lasted for about an hour and I’m in a bummer mood now.</p>

<p>I’m trying to understand where he’s coming from. Maybe it’s that this is his way of potentially dealing with me being 3000 miles away for most of the year. But still, he could’ve at least waited a couple weeks and not tell me on the day I got my acceptance letter. We are an immigrant family, and my parents are largely ignorant of the college/university system (they of course care about name and reputation). I’ve worked hard, I’ve gotten jobs to help with the bills over the summer, etc. and I feel like I’ve earned this. I sought out programs, and still got a good teacher rec. even though I attend a school with a graduating class of 800+. I self-tutored myself on the SATs, and did reasonably well with the resources I had. I got involved. Why can’t he be happy for me? </p>

<p>Parents, do you feel this is acceptable behavior? Do I have the right to be angry? I’m trying to understand, but I can’t wrap my mind around it yet.</p>

<p>Any advice would be appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Daiikon - I won’t comment on your dad. But we can be proud of you here in the Cafe. I am proud of you. You have been accepted to Williams, one of the most admired colleges in the United States. Sit there and feel proud of yourself. And you did it all without family resources. Be proud of yourself. Deal with the rest of it later.</p>

3

<p>Daiikon:</p>

<p>I second Alumother. Be proud of yourself. Also, I suspect that your father reacted immediately, on the spur of the moment. Sometimes, parents act like kids, and kids need to be mature. Ironic role reversal, isn’t it? But it looks like one of those times. I’ll bet your dad is scared at the prospect that his children are all leaving the family nest and he’s trying to hang on to you.
Give him time to cool down and get used to the idea that you will be going away to school, but not forever. You will be coming home for holidays, you will be in regular contact with your mom and dad (tell them about skype and webcams). </p>

<p>Tell him, too, that the students and the faculty at Harvard and Williams are pretty much the same but that you will get a lot more faculty interaction at Williams. It is the top LAC, together with Swarthmore and Amherst, very prestigious, highly selective. But wait until he is less emotional to make your case. And remember you have until May 1 to make a commitment, so you have until then to win him over to your side. Good luck and congrats on the Early Write!</p>

4

<p>daiikon~</p>

<p>First of all, MAJOR CONGRATS!!! on your EW to Williams!!! What a tremendous accomplishment…and one you should be <em>most</em> proud of, sweetie!! :)</p>

<p>Secondly, {{{{{hugs}}}}} to you for the disappointing nature of your parents’ reaction to your much wanted acceptance. The college application process can be a terribly difficult and stressful time for both students <em>and</em> parents. I’m sure your parents are reeling from the prospect of their child going so far away to school–I know this was a difficult thing for me to accept too.</p>

<p>Sometimes there is just a GAP in what a kid desires/needs and what that kid’s parents want FOR that child. It can be a terribly difficult thing to deal with. My sympathies are with you because I know some kids who are close to me who are dealing with this same thing right now.</p>

<p>Though this is hard for your parents, I hate to see them use this wonderful accomplishment as evidence that you don’t “love” them as much as your sibs do or that you are “abandoning” them. This is clearly NOT a fair interpretation of your drive, motivation and determination, and I so hope that they reconsider their remarks.</p>

<p>I’m very sorry that you did not receive the support of your family at this most special time for you. Please do not let this mar the joy YOU feel at this amazing accomplishment. You have done something WONDERFUL, and nothing anybody says can diminish that. And I am exceedingly happy for and PROUD OF you!!!</p>

<p>Perhaps when your parents have had a chance to calm down and adapt to the idea, they will come around. I truly hope so!</p>

<p>Meanwhile, CELEBRATE with friends who understand what this means to you!! You deserve it! :)</p>

<p>Congrats again! ~berurah</p>

5

<p>And another voice in the chorus of congratulations! I’m delighted for you; you should be really, truly proud of your accomplishments. </p>

<p>I’ll bet that your father recognizes all that you’ve done, and is proud of you, too. He may just need some time and some gentle educating in order to understand your choices, which are probably very different from anything that he could ever have envisioned when he came to this country. Hopefully, if you take it slowly, give him time to adjust to the idea, and explain about the nature of LACs, Williams’s reputation, the opportunities that you will have, the fact that going away to school is almost a rite of passage, etc, he’ll come along.</p>

<p>Congratulations again!</p>

6

<p>wow. CONGRATS. I’m so jealous. Williams is also my #1 choice, but I didn’t get EW…You should be so proud of yourself.
Do you happen to be a korean immigrant?</p>

7

<p>I second the calls to be proud and revel in the moment. And when you have taken that time, then read the following…</p>

<p>I don’t presume to know your father’s personality; I can only tell you that of mine. First, of all I was the youngest, and hence, last to leave the house. Perhaps this is your situation. I stayed close for college, but compensated by immediately heading overseas after graduation (where I stayed for a few years, in Asia). When I announced I was doing this, my father had a similar reaction. I didn’t realize it until one of his friends told me that my father was really broken up about his “last” leaving the house for good. It had a big impact with him, apparently.</p>

<p>Additionally, my father’s not very creative. He thought I was going to Asia to fritter time away, or at least that’s how he argued against my going. I stated my case against this and went anyway and proved him wrong. And that’s another thing I learned; ultimately, he saw the value in what I did and respected me more for it. On some level, your father will probably come around to this view, even if he doesn’t actually tell you so. Your path is your own to choose.</p>

<p>You may need to educate him on how wonderful Williams is – clearly at the level of the great colleges in the US. And he still might not come around. One of my good friends went to college and grad school at great, though not brand name, schools. His parents, who were up on schools enough to know better, didn’t respect what he had done until he was named a professor at Yale, and then of course they bragged about him all the time. It’s too bad, but the reality sometimes.</p>

<p>Be patient with your dad. He’ll more or less come around anyway. What you’ve accomplished is spectacular. One part of growing up is figuring out how to displease your parents as much as to please them. There are some things that are yours that you need to do to become your own person. And it is they who need to accomodate to your realities. I know this is not the typical Asian way, but to a certain extent these things are universal.</p>

<p>Good luck. You are going to be a superbly educated person. Congratulations.</p>

8

<p>Daii; Huge cyber hugs to you! What a great accomplishment.</p>

<p>Your dad’s bitter emotion must be upsetting, but try to open your mind in order to allow him to express his feelings. His are the feelings of an Asian immigrant about to lose a brilliant son to an unknown place. I suspect he would have those feelings no matter what East Coast school you attended.</p>

<p>I have a very good friend who is Korean. When her eldest son was getting ready to apply to colleges, I suggested she let him move away from home–because that’s the American tradition. Even though my friend is a very modern and intelligent woman (Seoul U), she was shocked by my suggestion. That is not the Korean way, she told me. </p>

<p>After some thinking, she did allow her son to choose–and her brilliant son chose to go away to university. It hasn’t been easy for my friend to accept but she is trying. It is a cultural adjustment–one that you and your dad are going to make in the next four years.</p>

<p>These stories are common in many communities–the Hispanic and African American communities too.</p>

<p>The stories are also happen in some American families. My family arrived in America in 1742 but my father was beyond furious that I chose to go to a school that was 12 hours away instead of a nearer one. Eventually he got over it, but it still breaks his heart that I do not live in my hometown. Moving away for college did lead to a global life. Perhaps he sensed that eventuality when I first left for that distant college. There are a number of CC parents who prefer their children not go to opposite coasts for university. </p>

<p>Be happy for yourself and find patience and tolerance for your father’s feelings.</p>

9

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<p>My parents were thrilled to get me off to college – any college – so they could be “free” of their children. They didn’t come to my college graduation. (Too far! What for?!) When I started graduate school, they assumed I’d never finish. ("You know, honey, you start a lot of things that you don’t finish . . . ") They didn’t come to my grad school graduation either.</p>

<p>There comes a point in your life when you start to do things for yourself, and not for them. </p>

<p>You should respect and honor your parents. But you also have to respect and honor yourself – and follow what you know in your heart is the right path for you.</p>

10

<p>daiikon—I echo others here—you should be extremely proud of yourself in not only getting in–but getting an early write-- from such a prestigious university. Give your father some time. You might also get a copy of the USNWR Colleges 2007 book…yes, its rankings are cussed and discussed here on CC, but in this case, it may help your father to see how Williams is ranked against other LACs that he’s “heard” of…With Williams being the #1 ranked LAC, you can at least show him some stats. Good luck to you…</p>

11

<p>You’re not alone. Having parents completely unfamiliar with what US culture, educational system, etc looks like is a huge strain, especially as they come off non-supportive when in truth they’re only trying to look out for your best. It’s extremely hard, especially when it’s such a huge moment for you (congratulations, by the way! I’m so jealous), to just have the patience and strength of mind to wait it out and explain to them the magnitude of what you’ve just accomplished. And you need to explain to them how much this means to not only any student accepted at Williams but to YOU, how sad they make you by not being at least willing to understand.</p>

<p>All the best of luck. And, for what it’s worth, sometimes they do come around. It just takes some time.</p>

12

<p>Daiikon, a question: Even if your father doesn’t come around, will you still go to Williams? Or will he need to approve of it for you to go?</p>

<p>(BTW, maybe Williams admissions people can convince him of its greatness.)</p>

13

<p>daiikon-- perhaps you could show him some Williams-related litereature-- rankings, glowing reviews in college guides, Williams’ own publications, etc. and let him see for himself. It sounds like he has not taken the time to educate himself about the majority of good schools to be found.</p>

14

<p>I was going to suggest exactly what lspf suggested–educate your father instead of seeking to criticize or alienate him. Sure, he is unsupportive and flawed–we’re all human–but his attitude is at least partly due to his love for you. He clearly wants the best for you–Harvard, Stanford, etc. But he just wasn’t brought up here and doesn’t know that Williams is of the same caliber if not a higher one. The nicest thing you can do for both your sake and your father’s is to educate him. Show him the light :slight_smile: (Tell him that Williams accepts only 19% of applicants–less than Cornell, same as Penn and Duke. And an early write is even HARDER to get. And Williams is SUCH a great school…you know this already. It shouldn’t be hard to convince him of its greatness.)</p>

<p>And you know…try to do this without sounding condescending. My parents are also Asian and I’ve had to be extremely careful with how I correct them. No one likes to be corrected–and we owe our elders respect even when they are wrong. The key messages to get across to your dad are “I will never pick a college to impress someone” and “I will go to the best school for me, not necessarily the hardest, most selective school on my list.”</p>

15

<p>So…to be proactive: are you sure that, when May 1st comes around, this will be where you want to go? If so (and only if so), call the alumni office. Explain your plight, and have them help you locate either Korean alums, or Korean parents willing to communicate with your dad. As a Williams alum, I feel confident the alumni office will help, and this is certainly NOT an experience they haven’t had before.</p>

<p>Right now, your dad isn’t ready to hear this from you. But coming from others, it might make a signficant difference.</p>

<p>(By the way: have you visited?)</p>

16

<p>Williams doesn’t have a significant Asian population. I’m sure that the admissions office would be eager to help a stellar, enthusiastic Asian candidate like you. Especially if the issue is improving their PR!</p>

17

<p>I second Mini on two accounts:

  1. Some asian friends who are knowledgeable can explain to him how great this admission is.
  2. He may be dealing with some anxiety himself and projecting it onto your mother. You are after all the first child to be going so far. Many of my asian friends pushed their children to go locally here in California.</p>
18

<p>Congratulations on your acceptance! </p>

<p>There are lots of excellent responses here; I’ll add that sometimes, in certain situations over the years I have reacted to my daughter in the same or similar way that your father did - she’ll want to do something or take a course of action, I’ll lack knowledge of the issue or otherwise not understand it, and dismiss it or reject it immediately. She has countered this by sitting down, showing me facts, figures, evidence, etc. and patiently explaining why my assumptions are wrong. The typical result of this is I relent just slightly, still not convinced, but let her go, supporting her materially but not totally ideologically, and then later, when it turns out her decisions/choice/whatever was perfect for the circumstances, it becomes a joke between us about how wrong I was in my early reactions. We have several such situations that we laugh about now where she reflects back on “at the time, mom, you said…” and she’ll go into this hilarious exaggerated immitation of my initial negative reaction. At the time they happened though they weren’t very funny at all to either of us, as she wanted to head in one direction that I strongly felt was not the best possible course of action. Over time, and coming to the end of five years of college, she has proven herself to be correct so many times consistently - and proven me wrong - that I now no longer question any choice she makes, and I tell her I trust her judgment completely. But it has been a very iterative process to get me there. </p>

<p>I suspect it may be the same way with your parents - as you involve into an adult, you will have enough of these types of situations over the years, and the net of it may be that they will have learned so many new things, and opened up to so many new ideas as a result of the parts of the world you expose them to that they will come around to being very intrigued by - and intensely interested in - your choices and decisions. But it may likely take several “Williams” situations to get them there, and, although there will be conflict, as long as there is also lots of love (and it seems from your post there is a LOT of love) the experiences will net out as very positive and make your family bonds even stronger. </p>

<p>So I strongly recommend you lay out a plan to education your parents about Williams. Sit down when everyone can be non-emotional, and lay out facts, figures, information, whatever data points you have that will give them a measurable viewpoint of how Williams compares to what they consider to be “real” colleges by comparison. Use whatever science you can find - could be career statistics, grad/med/law school acceptances, USNWR rankings - whatever it’s going to take. (As a sometimes obtuse parent, this would not convince me 100%, but, it would at least convince me to back off my position just slightly.) Consider, too, that this may have to take place over several discussions - it’s likely not going to be as simple as one conversation; you may have to layer it over several, bringing up new information and statistics, as well as repeating what you’ve already explained to them, several times. </p>

<p>Then, see if you can get them to visit Williams with you. Sometimes a visual concept and direct interaction helps complete the educational process. Also, if your parents can meet any staff or faculty at Williams, that may help significantly too. My daughter has used this strategy with me over the years - I’ll be very opposed to something, and she’ll set up a meeting or invite me to an event and introduce me to the people and/or circumstances, and this always ends with me coming away with a totally different viewpoint, and usually moving into neutral if not totally reversing my initial position. </p>

<p>Also, can you recruit any of your siblings to support you? I know you mentioned that they all went to college locally, but, would any of them have gone far away for college if they liked a certain school well enough to do so? What about other Williams alumni - are there local groups, perhaps even persons with similar cultural backgrounds that you might be able to introduce to your parents?</p>

<p>The very good news here for you - even though it doesn’t seem like it right now - is that your father is very emotional. Emotion is good, even if negative, because that means the person can be “sold” - on a new idea or concept. Apathy, comparatively, is very dangerous; in my experience an apathetic person is nearly impossible to significantly shift their opinion of once polarized in their position. </p>

<p>Last, in discussions, when you hear “no” - whether in this conversation or with others in the future, try to avoid allowing your emotional response dominate, and instead train your mind to hear “no” as “yes, IF”. For example, if my daughter were to come home and announce “I want to go sightseeing in Iraq after graduation”, I would say “oh, no, absolutely NOT, it’s dangerous, you don’t have enough money to fund such a thing, and there’s no business or cultural case to support such an activity - waste of time, money, dangerous, and does not further your career intentions”. In this and all other cases, “no” should really be heard as “yes, IF” - in this example, a strong argument supported by facts that guarantees safety, proves adequate funding, and supports career or personal growth would go a long way to convince me that sightseeing in Iraq is an excellent idea. (Extreme example, but pretty much on par with some of the more bizarre ideas my daughter has brought home over the years.) Bottom line, look for the “yes, IF” with your father: what will “sell” him?</p>

<p>This strategy will serve you well both today, and in the future in business situations. Often, when I am saying “no”, especially to my daughter, in reality I have already decided “maybe” and really do want to be led to a position of belief that will allow me to be able to say “yes” - I just need the rest of the data points in order to reach a comfort level, and it may well be the same with your father.</p>

19

<p>You can educate your father about the advantages of Williams till you and he are blue in the face. He only cares about one thing…so THE ONLY thing you need to show him are the relative admissions rates to Harvard, Yale, Wharton, Hopkins, Stanford (etc) Med School, Law School or Business school from Williams relative to the schools he considers to be worthy.</p>

<p>Forget about convincing him about the quality of the education- talk outcome with him.</p>

<p>As for the emotional manipulation, only you can decide if you are going to let this sway you. It will likely not end. As one who disappointed her parents on many days of her life (from an F in neatness in boarding school to the day I selected a husband) all I can say is that long, long ago it occured to me that it was my life to live, my choices to make and it was my choice whether or not to perpetuate a cycle of guilt (I don’t).</p>

<p>The final issue you have to deal with is whether or not your parents will finance you as they can/should. For this, make it clear to them this is a fabulous investment in their future. See point 1.</p>

20

<p>That is too bad. My parents were the opposite – they were the ones who steered me to Williams and other liberal arts schools in the first place, probably b/c my Dad had gone to Harvard and realized how superior an education I would receive. </p>

<p>I would echo what other say here. Give him a package with as many hard facts as possible. Say, Dad, are you at least willing to look at this with an open mind, and read some materials I give you about Williams? Don’t you at least owe me that much, to learn about the place I am so passionate about? </p>

<p>Start with this:</p>

<p><a href=“Williams College - Official Athletics Website”>Williams College - Official Athletics Website;
<a href=“http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/010694.html[/url]”>http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/010694.html&lt;/a&gt; (shows him that even Harvard wants to educate like Williams!)</p>

<p>As well as the US News ranking putting Williams first for the last four years. Show him the average SAT’s in that US News rankings for Williams, as well as the low acceptance rate. Show him that Williams has an endowment over 1.5 billion for only 2000 kids, in other words more resources than many major universities 10 or 20 times its size including I would think many of the UofC’s. If you are say, interested in law, look up stats at Harvard and Yale law and show how many Williams kids are at those schools, and remind him that only 500 graduate each year. Show him an article like this from the Chronicle of Higher Education about the unique eduction Williams provides:</p>

<p><a href=“http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i23/23a01601.htm[/url]”>http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i23/23a01601.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Show him the list of prominent people who have attended Williams. If there are any on here he would particularly appreciate (look in particular at the ambassadors section for some prominent Korea connections – did you say you were Korean? – with Gregg and Kyung-Won), highlight those:</p>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Williams_College_people[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Williams_College_people&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I mean, if it’s good enough for the US ambassador to AND from Korea, shouldn’t it be good enough for his son???</p>

<p>Also, do you know any guidance councilors, teachers, or other professionals educated about Williams (if you go to a top-flight school, probably yes, if not, probably no) who could </p>

<p>You should be very proud and you should absolutely NOT have to do this, but if that is the only way to make your parents understand, then that may be what you have to do. If they could visit the campus and see the science facilities, theater, student center, dorms, etc. that would be an enormous help as well b/c it is impossible not to be impressed with what the campus offers to only 2000 kids. If Williams is the school you really want (and it should be :), stress to him that this is the dream you have put all the hard work in for, and why would you put all that work in only to go someplace that would not reward you for your efforts and sacrifices???</p>