<p>My post simply points out how ridiculous the situation is when viewed from the other side. Since when does a non-citizen of a country have a say in how they run it? If I want to immigrate to Bonaire (my favorite island), there are a myriad of hurdles I have to jump. The first one is demonstrating 5 years worth of savings in the bank, or another money stream sufficient to support myself. Can I protest that in front of their government offices? Sure, for as long as it takes them to stick my butt on the next airplane home. No other country has unlimited open borders and unlimited immigration policies. Why? Because they can’t survive that way. It’s just that simple. If you want to live in Mexico, then move south (if they let you, look up the requirements). If you want to live in the United States, follow the rules, learn the language, apply for immigration status. </p>
<p>Most of those here illegally are working. We have laws on the books - some pretty strict ones I found after a little research, which criminalize the hiringof those who do not have proper work visas. The second offense is a felony.
So we have the laws, but not the will to prosecute. Yet we blame those who answer the call for the job offers.
Our government, and big business, doesn’t want this situation to go away. If they did, they would enforce the laws we have right now to stop the huge flow of workers. Until we clamp down on the employers, does anyone seriously think we can solve the problem? Is all this flag waving and posturing by those in congress and the administration any more than just that? Flag waving, and stirring up the voters?
Lots of talk and energy going into blaming the immigrants, lots of talk about building walls and making them pay, lots of talk about making damn sure they wait in line like everyone else, but very little talk about prosecuting the hands that feed them - our hands. We, Americans, our government and our businesses, created this problem, but we don’t want to take responsibility for it.</p>
<p>Apologies. I did not mean to call you hateful. I do find the idea of a national wall and the desire for identity cards (for immigrants) particularly distressing, but that was the wrong word to aim in your direction. Sorry.</p>
<p>^^ i beg to differ…i think the idea of a national wall is good… mexicans should come to the us legally like the rest of immigrant from other parts of the country…its not fair…all they have to do is cross the border, and boom they are in the worlds strongest and most advanced nation in the world, while many can only dream of coming here</p>
<p>I think we can agree to disagree on some of the issues, but just so you know where I am coming from…it has nothing to do with race or labeling people with a yellow star as you put it.</p>
<p>I understand the word “wall” has a bad connotation, but we really do need to form a fence or something to stop the sheer numbers of people coming here illegally. </p>
<p>Regarding an identity card, even US citizens are required to carry some form of ID such as a drivers license. So shouldn’t non-citizens also be able to be identified? </p>
<p>I sincerely have nothing against people from any country coming here legally. But if you look at the economics, the United States simply can’t continue to support the influx of millions upon millions of people every year.</p>
<p>I’m all for controlling our borders. I just doubt the double-wall Israeli “solution” is realistic for the US. </p>
<p>Nothing about illegal immigration is fair. Not for anyone. That’s why it would be terrific if business & government could get together on this and come up with something viable to address the US need for workers, the resulting flow of immigrants, the social impact, and the very real need to protect our borders. A HUGE problem to solve, but one that, if solved correctly, could strengthen our country tremendously. Immigrants made and will continue to make this country function. </p>
<p>As it is now – our borders aren’t protected, hard-working families are criminalized and another underclass is being created (this never leads to good things), and everyone – <em>everyone</em> – feels justifiably threatened. We should all be marching in rallies and talking, as we are here, about what could be done.</p>
<p>We (our government) know who the employers are. Heck, I know who the employers in my neighborhood are, don’t you? The landscaping and construction companies, the markets, the car-washes,the growers and owners of the fields, the office managers, and hotel owners, who hire the cleaners and the maintenance workers. One reason so many people fear our response is based in bigotry is that we refuse to hold the employers accountable.</p>
<p>If and when the talk turns to our employers - our employers, our own American citizens who are also knowingly breaking the law and getting rich because of it - perhaps people won’t be so quick to label our objections as racist. We need to hold ourselves responsible, as we are allowing and encouraging the workers to come and paying them 20x what they can make at home, if they can find a job to feed themselves or their families at all.</p>
<p>Lets put the blame where it belongs, and stop the hypocracy.</p>
<p>is that justified? that a mexican be allowed to cross the border because they need to feed their family?
and is the life the mexicans live here better than in mexico? except for the fact that they are earning more</p>
<p>i didn’t say it was justified. Where did I say that? I added that comment as a contrast to our friends and neighbors, yours and mine, who are making money on the backs of these people. yet we don’t seem to focus on their illegal actions - only the illegal actions of the immigrant.
We can greatly reduce the flow by cutting off the jobs. We should. Don’t want to do that? Then find a way to legalize the worker. We can’t have it both ways.</p>
<p>well i never said you actually said that…i was implying if you meant that…and your right that what our neighbors are doing its wrong…but their ambition is getting fueled by all the incoming illegal immigrants who are willingly to take these jobs
if we just stop illegal immigration then this would stop
and if our neighbors didnt do this then the mexicans would even have any jobs and cant support their family</p>
<p>I think you’re putting the cart before the horse.</p>
<p>The guys hang out on the corner every morning because every morning for the last X number of years, the gardening and construction operators drive up and take them to their jobs, where they work 9-10 hours a day before they are brought back to their corner to take the bus home.
If no one came to pick them up every day, would they still come? Of course not.
How would they feed their families? Well, we have a lot of countries in this world with a lot of poor, as you’ve mentioned before. That’s another issue which, if we weren’t so broke, might be able to help. We should do more. But the issue at hand, the one everyone seems to be clammoring about, is alll the"influx of millions upon millions of people every year." This could be stopped if we actually enforced the laws we have on the books at this moment to prosecute companies who hire undocumented workers.</p>
<p>That’s all I’m saying. I think all this anger at the worker is misplaced. ( I’m not talking about you, personally.) For those who are serious about correcting the problem, we have the abiltiy - but we need to have the will.</p>
i pretty sure, i heard something on cnn, that many illegal immigrants provide the companies with fake social security that everyone just re-uses it…again im sure where i heard that, but i think cnn
what about companies where they are providing with documentation to the government?
how will the government know that is fake and which employers are letting this happen…there absolutely way too many
so IMO i think we should just stop immigration from Mexico coming anymore and do something about the ones that are here…</p>
<p>If you think that the employers don’t know that their workers are not here legally, then I have a bridge I can sell you.</p>
<p>Yes, they have fake documents to “satisfy” the employers. (ie, cover the employer’s butts), because the companies do have to provide social security and payroll taxes for all of their employees. (which is why the idea that the illegals don’t pay taxes is also not true). But every year, hundrdeds of soc. sec. card numbers are not matched with real people, in other words, the fakes are found. Year after year. </p>
<p>The people themselves may or may not be fired, but the employers are just let off. Then they hire the next band of brothers off the street corner, and they work with them for a year until their fake id’s are exposed.</p>
<p>Social security collects millions form the employers of undocumented workers every year, but the workers never collect the money, of course. The immigrants know this, but it’s worth it to them anyway. It’s another way we exploit them, and it’s wrong.</p>
<pre><code> Your solution, that we should just stop immigration from Mexico and do something about the ones that are here is proving to be not so easy. How do we “stop it” and what is that “something” that we do about those who are here?
</code></pre>
<p>I’m sure that something should be done, and it should be part of a comprehensive plan. But the MEAT of the plan should be to stop the incentive --stop the hiring of illegals, which there are many punitive laws on the books to prosecute – . Without taking that step, it’s like giving candy to a baby and then slapping him for taking it. It makes no sense.</p>
<p>To the previous poster, Why is enforcing our borders wrong ? We do not live in daisy land where everyone is out to do good. And how do you maintain population balance if tens of millions are allowed to come into our country illegally on an open basis ? </p>
<p>The illegals and naive,good-hearted US folks who side with them under the phoney slogan that “everyone has a right to a better life” are carving away parts of US without firing a shot.</p>
<p>“It’s one America, all the way down to Paraguay.” ! Americans, meet your future.</p>
<p>Edvest1, you didn’t read my post after that one. I’m not crusading here for illegal immigration – quite the opposite. No one wants to be illegal. I’m advocating border security <em>and</em> an honest and viable policy on immigrant workers. The two are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>But why is it that no one is angry at the employers? Is it because they just don’t seem vulnerable? Are they too powerful to buck? I don’t get it. I really don’t.</p>
<p>yes, bestmiller. You’re right… they’re us. Our husbands and brothers, aunts and moms. And we’d all take a financial hit if we lost the cheap labor, and we know it. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but hopefully, it will be seen as an important part of the solution.</p>
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