Including pictures of your grandchildren in your Holiday cards??? Grandson's mom says no...

Parent Cafe
421

I’m so sorry about this young mom’s difficulties, @oregon101. I think the single most important element in the early weeks and months of mothering is that the mother enjoys and is comfortable with her baby. I was a LLL leader for many years as well (never thought I’d say that on CC), and I support breastfeeding, but not when the mom is unhappy about it and either doesn’t choose nursing or sincerely doesn’t want to continue. If your D2 doesn’t want to continue, I think she should be encouraged to follow her heart. Perhaps she’d be willing to continue pumping and feeding a combination of formula and breastmilk? She can also put the baby to the breast for contact, comfort, and nutrition while supplementing - there’s certainly value in that.

I’m surprised to find that no medical professionals have focused on the baby’s slow weight gain. That suggests to me that it might be within normal limits, since it’s hard - around here, anyway - to find MDs/NPs who wouldn’t be recommending supplementation, frequent weigh-ins, and even weaning if the weight gain is inadequate. Perhaps they feel that it can improve with the right management? But if the mom is exhausted, feeling inadequate and sad, and just wants to feel in control of the situation - again, I think she should be supported in following her heart.

She’s lucky to have you in her corner. I hope things work out well for her.

422

@oregon101, so sorry to hear of the struggles. This is not what a new mom needs on top of all the other hormonal upheavals and sleep deprivations.

That said, if she does want to continue the breastfeeding, I remember this from my LLL days. One meeting, a new mom of a premie came for help. The leaders were wonderful at asissting her - and very supportive of her as a mom, not just a breastfeeder. They suggested a supplemental device like this:

http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/products/51/supplemental-nursing-system-sns

The baby gets additional supplemental milk through thin tubes while also nursing at the mom’s breast. Has she tried contacting a local LLL group? My experience was around 30 years ago, but I hope the groups are still as available and supportive.

423

@oregon101, I had challenges similar to your DD’s. Although I didn’t realize what was happening at the time, I had postpartum depression with both of my kiddos, and I think it came from lack of sleep and the stress of breastfeeding. Both children seemed to eat constantly so I was always sore and bone tired. I suspect I wasn’t producing enough milk and/or there weren’t enough nutrients in it. I tried pumping with my eldest (I went back to work when he was a couple of months old) but it wasn’t enough. I looked for help, but the majority of help that was available seemed geared to how to make breastfeeding work. I don’t remember anything that suggested that sometimes, for some women, it just may not work. My son was totally on formula by the time he was 7 months old. He was growing okay, but I was exhausted. It was my mother who suggested using formula. I think it was the best thing I could have done for both of us. He started sleeping through the night and I quit dreading the times he was awake.

When my DD was born a few years later I was no longer working, but I had an active toddler who was too old for naps. She had colic for several months so I didn’t get much rest with her either. My husband walked her a lot in the middle of the night just so I could get some sleep. Even though I’d used formula for my son, maybe because I’d used formula for my son, I was determined to make breastfeeding work with her. However, I decided that if we were still having trouble by the time she was 7 months old or if there came a time where she wasn’t growing properly, we’d use formula for her too. The colic cleared up when she was about 6 months old and we successfully nursed until she was nearly 2. I wish someone had told me earlier that breastfeeding doesn’t always work, formula can be beneficial to both the mom and the child, and just because you aren’t successful breastfeeding one child doesn’t mean you won’t be successful with others.

424

Thought of this thread just a minute ago while I was cleaning out a drawer full of last years Christmas cards. We have friends whose entire Christmas card is just their grandkids!

425

S developed significant jaundice immediately after we were discharged from the hospital, and since it was the end of November, it didn’t work to put him in sunlight. I had to try to get him to drink as much as possible, and he had no interest in water, so we had to give him a bottle of formula per day in addition (at first) to nursing. (I also had to take him to the doctor’s office virtually every day for a heel stick blood test, IIRC. It is kind of a blur, at this point. :slight_smile: ) Luckily the situation resolved and he didn’t have to go back to the hospital to go under the lights.

After some initial latching issues, with the attendant mutual frustration and pain for me, we settled down and it was fine, although I couldn’t do much but feed him for the first three months, since he wanted to nurse at least 45 minutes out of every hour and a half all day. This was a baby who never fell asleep and willingly detached, as described in the books, lol. Thank doG, he slept from about midnight to 6 after the first two weeks, because he did not close an eye unless in the car the rest of the time! :slight_smile:

A typical outing for us was: a) nurse the baby for 45 minutes, b) change him, dress him for outdoors, and get both of us into the car and drive to the supermarket, c) nurse the baby in the parking lot, d) go in and get groceries , e) drive to dry cleaners and nurse the baby in the parking lot, f) pick up dry cleaning and drive home. So these two tasks took several hours.

426

I know that after my first delivery, my breasts were big, hard, sore after I was home (didn’t breast feed) - but after a day or two of discomfort, it went away and did not hurt. With second delivery 25 months later, did not have any of it - I guess my body knew what to do.

I am shocked that this new mom is not getting positive support for herself. I hope this is resolving in the best way for mom and baby.

427

Oregon, I am so very sorry to hear that story. Is there a La Leche League or a lactation consultant nearby?
The most important thing is that mom and baby are healthy. Some couples need a bit of support and the fact is that they aren’t going to be successful without the right support at the right times which is absolutely not a failing on the part of the new mom! She has already done so much for her baby and she should feel comfortable in making another decision going forward.

428

Thank You for your supportive posts! I really appreciate the information and suggestions and good feelings.
I did not know about fenugreek. Suggested the beer ( not the brand but love it!) and did that myself. She will take a couple of sips only. Was not even drinking water until I insisted (when feeding).

She and baby will be here for two nights soon and hopefully will be able to talk with her about counseling. Even if she
is not depressed right now I think she needs someone to talk to ongoing.

My D is a 3rd yr Medical student and went to the last appointment. She was shocked at how laid back the doc was and asked very leading questions to get this doc to focus and give better advice. Neither felt it was a very worthwhile visit.
D spends a lot of time with them–she is home doing research–so is there when baby is weighed. Baby is gaining very very slowly. She scared me the first 6 weeks as she did not look radiant (baby) but now has some cheeks and has woken up. She looked like a tadpole until 2 weeks ago…

429

I hated hated hated breastfeeding. The pain was excruciating and no one seemed interested in helping me. The baby’s Doctor finally ended it when he told me that he wasn’t my doctor, but to protect the child he ordered me to give it up because my baby was taking in more blood than milk and that was a critical problem for him. I stopped immediately and never even tried with our second. What a dreadful experience.

430

Hayden, that happened to my g/f, and she was told to stop breastfeeding.

My son made it easy for me. I’d nurse him and we’d both fall asleep. It was after I stopped that it was hard for him to gain weight. Fortunately, things sorted themselves out.

431

@oregon101

Although I do believe their are many benefits to breastfeeding, your D needs to understand that it is totally OK not to if it works better for her. Some of the best benefits are in the first days and weeks and she’s done that already. If she wants to continue breastfeeding, do reach out to La Leche League or a lactation consultant in her area.

It does sound like some post partum depression might be in play. I’m glad you will encourage her to talk to someone. Even if its not PPD, as you said, it will be beneficial anyway.

Also, tell your D its totally OK to change doctors. Find someone she trusts. It’s a long term relationship and having that trust and someone that meshes with her personality is important.

You mentioned her not drinking enough. Make sure she understands the importance of drinking TONS of water and eating well, getting sleep when she can, taking care of herself, etc. Other stuff can wait. Self care is so important after birth and while breastfeeding. Also, encourage her to get out and about. A walk outside, a little exercise and fresh air are good for both mom and baby and can do wonders for one’s emotional outlook.

432

Despite a certain degree of initial frustration, which probably would have been eased if I had something other than a book to turn to for advice, lol, I loved breastfeeding. It was handy to have the possibility of a bottle, though. Much more flexibility for me, although I rarely took advantage of it. I don’t think that S was “confused” by being offered both the breast and a bottle in his first week.

Everyone’s situation is different, and I think the most important thing is that the baby and mother feel comfortable with whatever they do, and the mother not be guilt-tripped by ideologues of any stripe. :slight_smile:

433

“Once you become established with breastfeeding, if you can’t feed on schedule-THAT is painful!”

I pumped because I had to work when my kids were young. They were 90/10 human milk/formula.

18/24/18 because one was born in the summer so I wanted to stretch out over the winter just in case, but only had to pump for the first six months or maybe longer, because my body and theirs adjusted to the feedings.

I would say if I went more than two years, I probably would have cut nursing and just pumped and given them a bottle. Too creepy IMHO if they get too old, and they aren’t missing any nutrients using a bottle.

How did this thread get to this point though?

But anyway, my mom had nursed my eldest sibling and gave up nursing my next sibling because he was a biter. None of the rest of us were nursed at all.

I had a friend who had a lot of trouble, but she did try but C-sections made it more difficult (especially the first unplanned, and the second was supposed to be VBAC so basically unplanned again).

One of mine was a “grazer”. Didn’t eat frequently, but when they did, it was an hour at best, and sometimes longer. Other ones were champs, and slept through the night from an early age - one night feeding in the first three months and then no night feedings after that.

I made two calls to the LLL at the local hospital.

And guilt wasn’t why I kept trying even with my grazer, it is just VERY much cheaper to nurse, and I don’t see any point to breasts at all except to nurse a baby. But I’m sure some people would not like teeth marks :slight_smile: (my only one who did that gave up biting enough to draw blood (on the edge at least LOL) after two days of trying)

434

Every time I read about pain, and bite marks and drawing blood (omg) and being tied down to routines that are basically bf, eat and sleep, it reconfirms that I made the very right decision for me and mine. God, the “inconvenience” of formula is about akin to the “inconvenience” of pouring a glass of milk!

435

I think that the situation of a person with a pair of preemie twins is very different. Whatever works! :slight_smile:

436

True, but I don’t want to play that card, because bottom line was I just didn’t want to, whether I’d had premie twins or a “normal” situation. IOW I don’t want to pretend “oh I really wanted to, and I tried so hard, but it just wasn’t in the cards” when honestly I fully own that I never was all that interested in trying and made only a token effort which I quickly abandoned. I say that because I think there’s so much pressure these days that the only acceptable outs are medical or similar situations, and I stand for the premise that “I don’t want to, no thanks” is just as valid of an out.

437

That’s okay. :slight_smile:

438

I had 2 full term babies (well they were both 2 weeks early, which was great) and chose not to breastfeed. I just was not interested. I didn’t find preparing bottles very difficult or time consuming. I think it’s a personal choice and you do what works for you.

I made a lot of unpopular decisions- I asked for the epidural (as soon as I could), used disposable diapers, went back to work full time. One benefit of being almost 34 years old with my first one was that I really didn’t care what others did or thought.

439

Thanks again.
My D spent time with 2nd D (do we CC folks have a code for kids that are truly ours forever but just came from
poor family situations? I am calling her 2D (vs D2) from now on unless someone tell me something else. If this sticks I
will make a formal post–as I know some of us have this situation in our lives but think there must be something better).
Actually, I am going to make a post and see what comes up as suggestions.

Anyway, together they talked and texted me to ask about the postpartum depression specialist that I know–
and 2D made the call to the clinic and left a message.
We will have 2D and baby for 48 hours beginning tomorrow evening.
Will let you wonderful people know how things are going.

440

@oregon101 - please express to 2D the importance of drinking! From what you posted, I have hte impression that she is simply not drinking enough and this will also lead to a shortage of breastmilk. Simply upping her liquid intake could solve the problem significantly.

This post on AskDrSears may be helpful to her:
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-eating/breastfeeding/hydration-while-breastfeeding

I wish her well!