Inside Medicine. What Are You Seeing? [COVID-19 medical news]

I haven’t dug deeply into the mixing data, but the boost/third dose data is interesting.

The FDA only approved third doses, for people who are likely to be immune compromised by age or disease, or heavily exposed. They did that because with 2 does of either nRNA vaccine, the protection against severe disease remains robust, and equivalent between both options.

They based that decision on the Israel data which has been grossly misinterpreted. 70% in that study were over 60 and the vast majority of those helped by a third dose were over 70.

All a third does will do is to temporarily top off antibody levels. The question is, is that needed for most of us. The FDA determined no, because the memory response is robust. That is what is hoped for.

I’m a healthcare provider and eligible, but have elected to wait at least until later in the fall for two reasons. One, like I said, memory is still very robust and the antibody boost is temporary. I want that boost, if I get it, during the peak indoor months. Two, a third dose could preclude a variant specific boost. For now, it doesn’t look like one is on the horizon, but 6G is. :rofl:


These statements are sort of at odds with one and other. It’s been a long time since I took immunology, but short term protection is conferred via antibodies and long term protection is from memory cells re-mobilizing antibody production after exposure. CD8 Ts and CD4 Ts, along with Bs are what make up this memory defense. If JnJ causes more CD8 production, it should imply more long term protection, not less. As I said, been a long time. :thinking:

I did write above that “Medium to long term immune response [of J&J] may be more durable than with Pfizer or Moderna.”

Is the Moderna booster yet available? I didn’t think it was.

S21’s doctor said he should boost his JNJ with JNJ (S21 also had covid). Doc wants S21 to avoid MRNAs due to cardiomyopathy risk, which is small, but not seen with JNJ. JNJ clotting side effects are even more rare, and affect mostly women.

No the Moderna booster is not available unless you are immunocompromised. The discussion of getting Moderna after Pfizer was mainly concerning folks who were still waiting and Moderna might be approved by then.

That’s currently the full dose shot though, the Moderna 50µg booster isn’t available anywhere yet.


Right. The half dose will only be available when the booster is approved. The current 100 mcg dose is technically not a booster but a third shot!

Here is a typical article with a headline about mixing brands but that only describes mixing an initial J and J with an mRNA shot. No mention of doing Moderna after Pfizer or vice versa. It also says it is advised to stick with the same brand but after J and J, mRNA is better. Not clearly presented in any of the articles I have read.

FDA to allow ‘mix-and-match’ approach on coronavirus booster vaccines - The Washington Post

Man! My eyes and brain fail me some times! I only saw with. :rofl:


The bit that is tipping us over the edge is it seems to be these antibodies that prevent getting Covid vs preventing a bad case of Covid. One of our 20 something sons got it at the beginning and became a long hauler. (Other two didn’t get it.) A blood uncle of mine likely died from it last Dec (never tested officially because he died at home then went straight to being cremated, but everything my aunt related matched a Covid death).

If there’s a genetic component to who gets worse cases, my caution flag is up.

On H’s side we spend a lot of time with his FIL (93, heart issues, one lung). He’s vaxxed, but in the category of those who could have problems. We plan to be there for a lot of Nov and Dec. We don’t want to take even a mild case to him.

We’re both past 6 months for Pfizer as of early Oct and with other “conditions” qualify for boosters, but not in the realm where I’m super worried about death compared to what I listed.

If we got a booster now, we’d also have potentially better protection in Feb when we’re in the USVI for the month (just 4 months away).

Medical lad also thinks we’re better leaning toward safe than sorry - then can re-evaluate when more data is known 6 months later.

We were thinking Pfizer since that’s what’s available, but if Moderna comes up as an option relatively soon, well, that led to the question. Long hauler son’s continuing issues went away with his two Moderna shots. We saw him in Feb, then later in May with his shots in between. Very noticeable difference.


A quick summary page of COVID-19 science topics:


Thanks @ucbalumnus

More to be aware of if anyone sees something amiss from someone who had Covid:

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Read “Brain on Fire” for an account of autoimmune psychosis. This happened to one of my kids when tetracycline caused a transient case of lupus that attacked the brain.

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I’ve read that book. It’s amazing and extremely eye-opening. So sorry that something similar happened one of to your children.


Excellent video detailing effects of boosters by type.

Before sitting through a 30 minute video, what are her bona fides? Why do you trust her opinion? Thanks!

Don’t know if her video is evidence-based, but here is the blurb about her on the video notes:

Disclaimer: Anne DeGheest is not a medical doctor and does not intend to provide any medical advice. Her sources are typically posted on every slide with links to published scientific papers and news reports. Please contact your physician before taking any supplements or medications discussed in these videos. Anne DeGheest pioneered the HealthTech or Digital Health space as a healthcare executive, an entrepreneur, angel investor, corporate advisor and mentor capitalist. She is the founder of HealthTech Capital and MedStars. She launched pulse oximetry with Nellcor and several new hospital patient monitoring companies. Her life science portfolio companies have generated over $18 billion in market capitalization including 8 IPOs. She provided angel capital, hands-on executive leadership and/or business strategy in the founding of major venture-backed companies that changed patient monitoring and hospital care delivery, including the launch of pulse oximetry. She is a well-known keynote speaker and panelist at multiple healthcare conferences. Check her background at


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@dietz199 @eyemgh

In case of TL;DW the video…

Some booster-related stuff is around 15:00 to 20:10 or so. Basically talking about the antibody levels from various original and booster vaccines, showing the table found at the end of .

Starting around 24:10, there is some stuff about vaccine effectiveness over time. Basically saying that the mRNA vaccine effectiveness drops over time, more so for Pfizer than Moderna, while J&J vaccine effectiveness appears stable, though at a lower level than initially seen in mRNA vaccines.

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Just a ittle tip about youtube videos: you can watch/listen to them at an accelerated speed. Just click on the gear, then playback speed. A trick I learned in graduate school!