<p>Late to this thread and just catching up.
I never cease to be amazed how people are so quick to jump all over and rush to judgement about posters who start threads. Why chastize MOWC for asking opinions?? C’mon folks, lighten up, would ya???</p>
<p>Now, as for the situation, first of all (1) I am the person who met MOWC and WC, NSM. I have NO IDEA who she is posting about, nor do I care. Add to that the fact that my memory stinks, and even if I did know who it was, I’d probably forget! As for the question at hand, I have one of those families who probably would make a crack if I looked at photos without permission, but wouldn’t care in the long run. The reality is, I am technology challenged, and wouldnt touch anyone’s electronic anything without permission. I am always asking them to help me with this stuff (so if I touched something without asking for help, they’d probably do the happy dance!). To the contrary, they (especially younger s, who desn’t have a digital camera) often use mine. I don’t care, though he often doesn’t put it back where it belongs, and regularly misplaces the little adapter that connects to the USB port. That is another issue entirely- sorry to digress.</p>
<p>In this situation, I don’t know what all the issues are, and I am comforted that the father would ask a good friend for her opinion. This is not a bad thing. If there is a nefarious reason for the stemmom to have the pictures of the messy rooms, I think the dau should have “accidentally” deleted them from the camera and kept quiet! Problem solved.</p>
<p>MOWC, I will of course respect the request to stay out of the thread. Suggest in the future though, you may want to consider starting threads with a request to restrict commentary to a narrow framework of response. I have seen other people do this in the past - ie “please confine responses to X portion of the topic” - and it seems to work very well. </p>
<p>Your original post invited commentary without restriction, so, that’s what I did. I’m totally fine with it if you disagree with or do not care for my perspective.</p>
<p>A few months ago, we had a poster share the contents of a minor’s facebook [remainder of sentence edited out - Mod JEM]. This minor was the center of a controversial issue which was publicized in the media and it would have taken very little effort for anyone here on CC to identify her. And of all our posters on that very busy thread, only two stepped up to say they thought discussing the minor’s facebook content without her knowledge was wrong. Everyone else thought the kid was fair game, even though she had NO IDEA she had essentially ‘friended’ every person on CC through the actions of one of our adult posters.</p>
<p>Now we have some posters taking issue because MoWC shared a problem on behalf of a friend WITH that friend’s knowledge and encouragement? I’m baffled at the inconsistency of what some consider appropriate topics and what they consider not…</p>
<p>And COME ON…how many times have we seen this same thing here… “Can you help my friend…”, “I have a friend with a question…” “My friend wants to know…” “My friend has a problem…”?? Until now, everyone has been very receptive to these posters offering assistance, advice and support for our posters’ friends with no recrimination or judgement for the poster. </p>
<p>Frankly, if some of you are uncomfortable with the information shared, there’s always the next thread to hang out in…</p>
<p>“And fighting over messy rooms and such is a little immature if you ask me.”</p>
<p>I recently had a divorce case come across my desk in which photos of a messy home were used to make the case for the unfitness for custody of one parent. No idea if that’s what happened here, but I can say with certainty that it does sometimes happen.</p>
<p>lts…the problem with your posts were that you just didn’t limit your responses to support or constructive criticisms. You said ugly things about MoWC’s friend.</p>
<p>zoosermom - I can see where the photos you describe might be pertinent. My understanding was in MoWC’s friend’s case, the stepmom entered the daughters’ bedrooms and took photos of their teenage housekeeping skills. </p>
<p>lol…that’s something that’s never gonna go over well…</p>
<p>(boo-hoo’ing in her lunch…) Nobody liked the idea of just calling a spade a spade, and serripticiously deleting the photos as serripticiously as they were taken? While 2 wrongs don’t make a right, it would have quietly solved the problem in the first place :)</p>
<p>I have noticed lately that there has been what seems to be an increase in the # of posts that simply attack the OP rather than respond to the question. The “roommate yellow flags turn to red” and “the fence” threads come to mind. Holy cow folks, is it the tension of the college applications that seems to have put people in such surly moods?? Can’t we just all play nice?</p>
<p>"And COME ON…how many times have we seen this same thing here… “Can you help my friend…”, “I have a friend with a question…” “My friend wants to know…” “My friend has a problem…”?? "</p>
<p>Actually, my typical response to such threads is to wonder why the “friend” isn’t posting here. I tend to suspect that in most cases the “friend” is the OP or the OP is posting out of nosiness, not because their “friend” asked them to. After all, most people have access to computers so could post here if they so chose. </p>
<p>A third option could be that the friend is too lazy to bother getting info for themselves. </p>
<p>I am not suggesting that MOWC is the “friend” or that she’s posting without her friend’s permission. I am saying, though, that I suspect that’s what’s going on in most such situations here. I do think, however, her situation may be one in which her friend spends lots of time venting to and getting advice from friends and coworkers about serious marital issues instead of seeing a professional.</p>
<p>NSM - Regarding the ‘my friend’ posts, it’s interesting which posters you choose to take at face value and which you do not. But forming those opinions about each other IS our individual right and I respect that; though I do recall recently being chastised for questioning the ‘face value’ of one of our more unreal posters.</p>
<p>Basically, I think the guy asking for help in whatever way he chooses is his right. I wouldn’t be so quick to read between the lines to the point of recommending professional help however. I see a lot of that armchair psychologist thing here on CC sometimes (no offense to our REAL psychologists ;))…and it too can be very irresponsible.</p>
<p>nsm,
With all due respect, where is the data to support any of the hypotheses you posit in post # 69? Some of my friends know I spend way too much time :o on cc, and if we (my friends and I) happen to discuss something, I don’t think it would be odd for one of us to say-- “hey- lets get some independent opinions on this from people who don’t know the situation” (though I acknowledge this hasn’t happened yet, but it could). Many folks might not want to register on CC just to ask a one time question (and newbies are sometimes suspected to be oldies under a new name). Old timers posts might have a lot of “hits” just because their name is familiar. And gee, with some of the harsh comments to OPs lately, I am not sure newbies would feel comfortable posting such a personal question.</p>
<p>All I am saying is, lets look at it from the positive, not the negative. The friend is asking for outside opinions. This is good. The male is talking about family issues. This is good. This isn’t “odd” at all. Lets welcome questions, not chastize them. Just my opinion, FWIW. BTW, maybe the friend and his family have gone to therapy. We don’t know and shouldnt make assumptions.</p>
<p>"All I am saying is, lets look at it from the positive, not the negative. The friend is asking for outside opinions. This is good. The male is talking about family issues. This is good. "</p>
<p>I have a very different opinion about what’s going on. I’ve virtually always seen it as a big red flag when a man decides to talk to a female friend about family issues involving his spouse.</p>
<p>I believe that with very few exceptions, such convesations are leadi-ns to conversations about, “My wife doesn’t understand me…but you do” situations, which are bad news. I also think that it’s a betrayal of one’s marriage to be talking to friends of the opposite sex about marital problems. That’s really different IMO than a woman’s talking with a female friend about marital problems or a male talking to a male friend about marital problems.</p>
<p>From what MOWC has posted about the man’s marital situation, it sounds very dysfunctional, and I continue to believe that he’d be far better off getting advice from an experienced therapist instead of from friends, coworkers and message boards. Since he’s a highly educated person with presumably a well paying job, seems he’d want feedback from a professional, not strangers on a message board.</p>
<p>And MOWC has said her friend is “difficult,” the “stepmonster” is “abusive,” and there have been profanity-laced arguments between the stepmom and daughter. In addition, it’s a blended family that’s still living together while the parents divorce. The situation is one in which thoughtful people would seek family counseling, something that one would expect lawyers to consider routinely since they often send their clients to mental health professionals and consult with mental health professionals on their cases.</p>
<p>Even armchair psychologists could attest to the appropriateness of family counseling in this situation and in many divorce situations. </p>
<p>As a person with a doctorate in psychology, my personal take on such situations involving friends with marital problems is that I refer them to professionals, something that I have done. The kind of problem that MOWC posted is bigger than who’s right in terms of the privacy issues.</p>
<p>I just accidentally lost my post, so will try to recreate it as best as I can.
First, I find it sad that a friend’s motives are questioned (“big red flag”) when a friend of the opposite sex happens to confide in the other. I have had “guy” friends and there is nothing inappropriate about it or the conversations we have had. As Sigmund Freud says, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. I was happy to be available when a colleague needed to “vent” about his marital problems. He had a therapist, but just needed to talk. He, his now ex wife, his current wife and I are all in the mental health field too, NSM. No nefarious alterior motives. Just was a support system. I was happy to be there when he needed it.</p>
<p>In this (MOWC’s) particular case, I believe MOWC told us that the friend’s marriage is OVER, not dysfunctional. I have to agree with zoosermom who gave examples of alterior motives. I can hear it now: “Oh gee, I couldn’t possibly send our poor, fragile, vulnerable 10 yr old child to visit his/her dad several states away to stay in such deplorable, disgusting, filthy conditions”. Look at these photos of this disgusting environment" – Sounds like an impending battle for change of visitation, child support or something.</p>
<p>Not sure why we are pulling out our shared Clinical Psychology Ph.D. credentials today, but from where I sit, I don’t see things the way you do, NSM.</p>
<p>With all due respect, I wonder if you have considered the impact of what you are saying about friendship NSM. </p>
<p>To say a man can’t share a problem with a woman, that it is only appropriate to share problems or confidences with your own gender, suggests men and women are either incapable of having platonic friendships or incapable of accepting the platonic friendships of others. To read “betrayal” into such a friendship is to imply one party or the other has inappropriate motives. I just don’t think it’s so.</p>
<p>Not to get off-subject, but the “roommate” thread was unique and unlike anything else I’ve seen on CC because the OP opened up the thread with a litany of negatives about her dau’s roommate. When other posters came in to try to steer her thinking into a more positive direction wrt the roommate situation, it was considered negative to the OP. Sort of turning the typical CC thread on it’s head. It got very confusing as to who was really being negative and who wasn’t.</p>
<p>“To say a man can’t share a problem with a woman, that it is only appropriate to share problems or confidences with your own gender, suggests men and women are either incapable of having platonic friendships or incapable of accepting the platonic friendships of others. To read “betrayal” into such a friendship is to imply one party or the other has inappropriate motives. I just don’t think it’s so.”</p>
<p>I’d be interested in hearing the opinions of others here – men and women – about how appropriate they feel it is for heterosexual married people to be sharing their marital problems with friends of the opposite sex.</p>
<p>While I think that it is possible for heterosexual men and women to have platonic relationships, I think it is very rare that such friendships safely can include the kind of intimate conversations about romantic partners that people comfortablly do in their same sex platonic relaionships.</p>
<p>“My wife doesn’t understand me” is a line that often is the prelude to opposite sex friends developing a deep relationship that includes sexual involvement. Many people have unwittingly gotten involved in affairs via that route.</p>
<p>Anyway, how comfortable would adult posters here feel with their spouse or partner’s talking with an opposite sex friend about your relationship problems? Would it be OK with you for your partner/spouse to vent about you to their opposite sex friends?</p>
<p>H and I have been together almost 30 years, and --as is the case with most couples – have had ups and downs, but one thing that I think has helped us stay together is our not discussing marital problems with opposite sex friends, though both of us have platonic friends of the opposite gender.</p>
<p>Anyway, I would be interested in hearing others’ opinions on this, including how long you’ve been in a romantic relationship and whether you’ve discussed relationship/marital problems with opposite gender friends, and whether you think doing that helped or hurt and whether it was acceptable to your partner.</p>
<p>Wow, NSM- you are SO off-base! As I have said, I have always had close male friends, and I assure you they are not of the “my wife doesn’t understand me” variety. This particular man took what I thought was MORE than his share of the blame for the demise of the marriage. He and I share an interest in teenagers (and the associated problems) AND colleges, so this forum was a natural extension for our debate on privacy. He knows I post on the forum, but he has no interest in doing so himself. I have met the older daughters and think very highly of them. They aren’t perfect, but they don’t seem to get in as much trouble as MY one kid does!<br>
Am I remembering this right? Aren’t you (NSM) the one who has no use for anyone who even has a social drink? Maybe I’m getting you mixed up with someone else.<br>
Whether or not my friend has sought outside counseling is not a subject for this thread.<br>
He doesn’t go blabbing his personal life or marital problems around the office. We share a lot, and there are trips to the bar after work (oh, horrors), but what he tells others is at quite a different level. I didn’t even find out about the camera incident until Friday, and it happened in June. We were discussing something about the older girls, and it came up.
I feel privileged to have such close friendships with my co-workers and I am glad I can give them support and feedback as well as receive it.</p>
dp-
There sure have been some interesting threads on CC in the many years I’ve been here! Not sure the roommate thread was all that different, and the OP did say there was more to the story than she posted. I guess that isnt really the point. I agree that several posters tried to be positive and encouraging, offering helpful suggestions, but some (not you) just chewed her out and told her she was too enmeshed with her daughter. She left.</p>
<p>I didn’t see your last post before I posted mine. I have always had close friendships with men and my husband hasn’t had any problem with it. I tell him about the conversations. The conversations with this particular friend are about relationships, communication, the failure of the marriage, the pain of the divorce, the best way to help the kids, the monetary issues, the burden of taking care of the house etc. I would not say it was about “marriage problems”. The marriage was OVER. Read my lips- OVER. There are no sexual innuendos- perhaps I’m just “one of the guys”, but I find my friendships with men to often be more sincere and transparent than those with women. It’s served me well in business and in life.</p>
NSM-
Perhaps you can start a new thread with this question? This would take this discussion more off topic if addressed here. That said, even though I suspect you are reaching out to others, and may not want my opinion ( ) count me in as one who has a stable 23 yr marriage, and would be fine with my h getting input from a female friend about any of our spats. He is not a big talker, so if he wants to talk to a friend, I suspect the conversation will be brief! I trust my husband, and would not be threatened if he wanted a female opinion about something. Besides, we women are so much more logical and reasonable than those male blockheads! ;)</p>
<p>While perhaps affairs have been initiated with the “my wife doesn’t understand me” line, I have to wonder how many times a male said that to a female friend when they DIDN’T have an affair-- just a friendship.</p>
) count me in as one who has a stable 23 yr marriage, and would be fine with my h getting input from a female friend about any of our spats. He is not a big talker, so if he wants to talk to a friend, I suspect the conversation will be brief! I trust my husband, and would not be threatened if he wanted a female opinion about something. Besides, we women are so much more logical and reasonable than those male blockheads! ;)</p>