<p>“but given that MoWC has stated the messy rooms were the crux of conflict between daughters and stepmom…AND that stepmom did not notify, or seek approval from, the girls prior to taking the pictures, it’s pretty easy to understand what was going on…”</p>
<p>Actually, it’s not pretty easy for me to know what was going on. What were “messy rooms”? Rooms with broken furniture, rotting food, stained carpets? Rooms of a house that the stepmother owned or co-owned that will require a lot of repairs, costs that will need to be reflected in a divorce settlement?</p>
<p>Rooms so trashed with the dad’s approval that they are evidence that he should not have custody of the child he and the stepmother have together?</p>
<p>I don’t see any reason for the stepmom to have to ask permission of the daughters for taking pictures of the Ds’ rooms in a house that the stepmother either owns, co-owns or is one of the 2 adults in charge of.</p>
<p>The divorce sounds nasty, the family dysfunctional. If this were the situation of a co-worker, I’d avoid talking with the co-worker about it because I wouldn’t want to be dragged into that mess.</p>
<p>The divorce was not “nasty”. It was actually about as agreeable as such things can be. There was no dispute over the house, custody or anything else. The house is beautiful and well-kept and the rooms are what I would consider “normal” messy teenager. I, myself, have one neatnik (WildChild, believe it or not) and one messy-room kid.<br>
There is not broken furniture, no question about whether either parent is fit. Stepmom made a proposal that she leave the home and the marriage and go back to the state she prefers and felt “forced” to leave by his employer and take the daughter. They divided up the property (she would not agree to co-ownership of a vacation house because she said she didn’t want to take any chance that if something happened to him, the older D would get an interest in it…), did the divorce without a lawyer (other than him, who didn’t know what he was doing…) and went on their way. </p>
<p>Also, Northstarmom, this co-worker is a close friend and we are both lawyers. We talk about our personal lives and our whole department is close. It wouldn’t work for everyone, but it does for us. He knows I am interested in teenagers and their problems and we have helped each other through a lot. I haven’t been “dragged” into anything. He is very objective about the problems in his family, the harm caused to his daughters by BOTH parents and the pain of the divorce. He had a 19 year first marriage and an 11 year second marriage, so he does try to stay the course. I guess I don’t run from the people in my life because they are facing problems in their lives.</p>
<p>Momofwildchild, I don’t intend to sound mean spirited or anything, but, if I were going through a divorce, and you were my trusted coworker and friend, and I had taken you into my confidence as that trusted close friend, and I shared an issue such as this with you, I think I would have a HUGE problem with it if I were to discover that you posted my personal business on the internet for anyone and everyone to read about, comment on, evaluate, etc. Personally, I find the thread about this person’s private affairs a far larger breach of privacy than any issues with cameras and the like. </p>
<p>I am sure you are a very good, kind friend to this person or he would not be talking to you, but, does it help him in any way to gossip about his personal matters here?</p>
<p>Oh, well, in that case, since he’s dictating to you what to post here, perhaps the best possible and fairest response might be that his ex-wife (?) should get one of HER co-workers or close friends to post here, in order that we can learn both sides of the story, in order to better understand the scenario, and issue a more balanced collective response. Oh, and maybe the daughter can do the same, that way we get the complete perspective, from all three sides…</p>
<p>I don’t really think that anyone can conclusively comment what is or is not an invasion of privacy in some complete stranger’s household. People can only issue opinion based on what they themselves would or would not do.</p>
<p>“I guess I don’t run from the people in my life because they are facing problems in their lives.”</p>
<p>? When it comes to co-workers, I don’t want to be involved in their personal problems. To me, a co-worker isn’t the same as a close friend. I wouldn’t want to hear about the nasty details of a co-workers divorce (and what youv’e posted here are what I’d call “nasty details”), and I would question the judgment of any co-worker who wanted me to post this kind of situation on a message board to get feedback from strangers. I also would feel that it’s a waste of my time to hear the details of the co-worker’s marital problems and then to at his behest post those details on a public message board. </p>
<p>If your co-worker wants a balanced perspective on the incident that’s troubling him, the best place for him to go to would be to a family therapist who is experiened in working with blended families, particularly those undergoing divorces. Even if a friend were asking for such advice, my advice to them would be to seek an unbiased professional – a family therapist – to help them. My perspective and advice would be skewed because I’d be biased toward my friend. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, how people on this board (including me) view the coworker’s privacy issues is valueless since neither the stepmom nor the daughters have had an opportunity to present their views here.</p>
<p>It also seems to me that the whole family – the stepmom, daughters and the father all have problems respecting each others’ privacy. This includes the father who is violating his family’s privacy by telling a co-worker so much about their family’s problems. I wouldn’t choose to be dragged into that mess, and if I had a choice, I wouldn’t choose to have him as a co-worker. It’s hard for me to imagine that he’s carrying his full share of the company’s workload when he’s so preoccupied with his family problems that he’s dragging a co-worker into the situation.</p>
<p>Seriously, imagine being unfortunate enough to be married to this prize. If you have a marital problem or an argument, he’ll not only gossip it all over the office to his coworkers, he’ll urge them to post it on the internet to a bunch of strangers…</p>
<p>I think the <em>invasion of privacy</em> issue depends on the relationship. I could care less if my husband or kids scroll through the pics on my camera. If someone else picked up my camera and started scrolling through the pictures, that would seem like an invasion of privacy, or at the least, rather odd behaviour. </p>
<p>In this particular case, it sounds as the stepmom and girls don’t the kind of relationship where it is okay to be handling/looking at her stuff. On the other hand, they did, and no doubt wanted to know about the pictures of their rooms which seems just as much an invasion of privacy as looking at the pics on the camera, given what I know of the circumstances. The rooms may not belong to the girls, but the mess is theirs – the empty coke cans, the dirty underwear, or whatever the mess consists of – probably not an image they would choose to share with outsiders – that kind of stuff should be private. I suppose there could be a <em>good</em> reason to take pictures of the girls’ mess. I’m not sure what that would be, given the circumstances.</p>
<p>One of the criticisms levelled at men is that they don’t open up to people. Who is this guy supposed to talk about his problems with if not a close friend like MofWC? Sure he could pay for therapy, but what’s wrong with him having natural supports? I think a therapist would encourage him to have natural supports. </p>
<p>As to privacy, I don’t think any of us has been able to guess his spouse’s identity from MofWC’s posts. Unless I’m just really obtuse and it’s clear to everyone else that she’s Susie Smith of 123 Main St., Anytown USA.</p>
<p>"Who is this guy supposed to talk about his problems with if not a close friend like MofWC? "</p>
<p>In her first post, she described the man as a “coworker,” not a close friend. To me, it’s inappropriate to be sharing the kind of details about one’s life that that man shared with a co-worker. </p>
<p>I also wonder about a man who would share with a female friend intimate details about his marital problems. There are many men and women whose marriages have been destroyed because they discussed their marital problems with friends of the opposite sex instead of getting professional counseling. Talking about one’s marriage with friends of the opposite sex can lead to one’s spouse feeling betrayed, and it also can lead one to view their opposite sex friend as being kinder, etc. than is their spouse.</p>
<p>A person who’s a lawyer presumably can afford to get good professional help instead of asking a co-worker or friend to post details about their life on the Internet to get feedback from strangers. His judgment seems very poor.</p>
<p>I remember that there’s at least one member of CC who has met MOWC in person, so presumably at least one person may be in a position to know who MOWC is referring to. For any of us, it’s also very likely that some people we know have recognized us here. I even ended up interviewing a student whom I had initially encountered on CC. I don’t think the student ever connected me with my CC name, but I was able to connect him with his.</p>
<p>I have shared responses with my friend/co-worker and he has made suggestions. I doubt that he is particularly concerned that anyone here will discover who he is.
Several of my co-workers are also close friends. He has not been able to open up to many people, and our relationship has been beneficial for him and me. He and his wife were in the process of filing for divorce before anyone had any idea things had gotten to that point. She had a neighborhood full of female support- he had no one but a few drinking buddies. We work a lot of hours and deal with a lot of intense issues, and it is good to bond with the people with whom we work. My husband doesn’t have a problem with it- I have always had lots of close male friends due to my profession and my athletics. I have worked in traditionally “male” industries and have always fit in and have not been regarded as “threatening” by the wives. In fact, my maid of honor in my wedding was a man.<br>
Nothing I have shared on here is a big secret. The older girls have facebook pages and myspace accounts, and there has been plenty out there about the home life. The wife spent hours griping to the neighbors and to her family back home. If he and I want to share a few things to complete the picture here, I guess it’s up to us.
The original question was one he and I disagreed on somewhat- whether looking at a camera is an invasion of privacy. My daughter (23) raised an interesting point. She feels that if you had pictures developed and left the envelope with them on the counter, it would be fair game to look at, so what is different about a camera. On the other hand, she felt that going through her purse or wallet would be an invasion of privacy. We thought it was an interesting issue for discussion, and did not really intend for it to be a discussion of what a bad spouse he must have been. He’ll plead guilty to that one. :)</p>
<p>One thing I’ve noticed. If you buy your kid a digital camera, never ever expect to get copies of the pics, even of family vacations. Not emailed to you, not printed for you at Walmart, not even in the rain and on a train.</p>
<p>D. has no problem with handing me her camera and letting me scroll through all her pictures (she has a huge memory stick she almost never takes anything off of), but if I want a picture I can look at tomorrow too, I better have my own camera. With that said though, she’d probably be miffed if I just picked up her camera and started looking without her sayso.</p>
<h2>“The rooms may not belong to the girls, but the mess is theirs – the empty coke cans, the dirty underwear, or whatever the mess consists of – probably not an image they would choose to share with outsiders – that kind of stuff should be private. I suppose there could be a <em>good</em> reason to take pictures of the girls’ mess. I’m not sure what that would be, given the circumstances.”</h2>
<p>eXACTly. My d has a conniption if the bugman sees her dirty laundry as he passes through her room to the bathroom. </p>
<p>If taking a picture of the rooms was such an ‘honest’ venture, why not ask the girls’ permission first? Perhaps the woman got so upset at the idea of her pictures being viewed by the daughter because she KNEW she was wrong in taking those pictures?</p>
<p>LOL @ Conyat, I’m still campaigning for copies of the graduation pictures. Support her to the max all these years, and cannot even have copies of the pics. </p>
<p>MOWC I think the bottom line answer to the original question is that everyone is different and every household dynamic is different. I would never touch anything of my D’s without permission, including her camera, but that is mostly because I am a klutz and have a tendency to make things like cameras malfunction just by getting within a few feet of them. I don’t care what anyone touches of mine - with the exception of my laptops and phones - I cannot stand it when someone wants to come near one of my laptops - and - NO ONE gets to even look like they want to get near the keys of my mustang. </p>
<p>As to the gentleman and the operations of his household, I never said he was a bad spouse and in any case I am not qualified to judge if he is a great spouse or a horrible spouse or something in between. It is a little bit odd though that an educated professional man in his middle age would be obsessing over this relatively insignificant issue given the larger issues of what he has going on in his life. One would think he would be directing his time a little differently. And, I do think it’s icky for a spouse to be gossiping about the other spouse and even his own daughter to coworkers, and to encouraging posting the details on the internet. It’s not a matter of anyone being able to identify anyone, it’s more the “ick” factor - if he’ll be this indiscreet, what else will he broadcast? Sexual positions and preferences? Personal financial matters?</p>
<p>latetoschool- You are out of line. Give it a rest.
Your words were, “Seriously, imagine being unfortunate enough to be married to this prize.” I wouldn’t consider that particularly flattering, especially since you know very little about the situation. This man (and these are all my words) did everything possible to keep this family together- for YEARS.
He was not “gossiping”- he was confiding in a trusted friend (me), who has had her own family struggles with teenagers AND a stepson over the years. I would not call this “broadcasting”.<br>
Also, where do you get your idea that he is “obsessing” about this- he and I thought it was an interesting issue on which to get some outside input. We debate a lot of things between ourselves, and the issue of camera-privacy was one of them.</p>
<p>MOWC - at his urging, you posted details about this man’s marriage, his household, and his private life on the internet, and invited complete strangers to comment on them. I need some help understanding how is it out of line to therefore offer the requested input? Or - did you only want to see posts that indict the ex-wife?</p>
<p>If you really wanted to have impactive dialog about camera privacy - valid enough - why didn’t you construct the thread in theoretical terms, instead of the icky, seedy gossip about someone else’s failed marriage? It seems to me that would have led to more substantive, interesting discussion.</p>
<p>You seem very hung up on the concept of “gossip”. I guess that hit a nerve with you!<br>
If you don’t like the “icky, seedy gossip” then don’t read the thread! I was providing background, as needed, in response to posts about the nature of the relationships in the family.</p>
<p>Good grief latetoschool…you could apply your complaint about MoWC’s thread to ANY thread here on CC where people have brought personal issues forward for scrutiny and advice. It’s what we do here.</p>
<p>I agree with latetoschool in that while it’s typical here for people to bring their own issues to the message boards, I find it odd that someone is requesting comment on the intimate details of someone else’s life. </p>
<p>I realize that MOWC did this at her co-worker’s request, but I find the request odd. It’s hard for me to imagine that the stepmother and daughters would want details of their life posted here. This is why I suggest that entire family has problems with privacy boundaries.</p>
<p>If I were MOWC, I wouldn’t want to take on the job of posting their private info, and instead of posting their info, I’d suggest to the dad that he see a good therapist who’s experienced with helping blended families who are divorcing. As an educated person, a lawyer at that, surely the dad knows that it would be better to take such issues to a therapist instead of asking a co-worker to post them on a message board.</p>
<p>Should the stepmom or daughters happen to learn about MOWC’s posting their situation here, more than likely MOWC would be the next victim of their verbal attacks, and I’d bet the mortgage that the dad would be blaming MOWC for the mess that he really caused.</p>