<p>Teenagers with messy rooms???
What is wrong with these people??? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Again, if stepmom need pictures of the room for ‘honest’ reasons, why not take the pictures when the rooms weren’t being lived in (girls away at school) and the rooms were clean? Or, why not mention to the girls she intended to take pictures so they could straighten up the rooms if they wanted? Nope…sorry…I can pretty much recognize petty behavior when I ‘see’ it. Stepmom just HAD to take the pics during her one week overlap with the girls, when the rooms looked their worst and she just HAD to do it without the girls’ knowledge. Doesn’t seem like she was working very hard on the button-pushing thing. What she did was a lot of things, but “morally neutral” isn’t one of them. </p>
<p>And I could turn the ‘threw a fit’ argument around. As I said before, perhaps the stepmom ‘threw a fit’ because her sorry, sneaky deed was discovered and she knew it was wrong. </p>
<p>And UCD - MoWC is not venting, she is sharing facts as she knows them to us with the permission of her friend. Suggesting she is fanning flames isn’t accurate or appropriate, imho.</p>
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<p>LOL. I just got back from a visit with an old friend that I hadn’t seen in 20 years. Saw her beautiful house for the first time. Lovely home, nicely decorated, very clean. She invited me to stay over and then got a little apologetic – the best bed was in her daughter’s room. The daughter had just left for college, had cleaned up some, she said, but there were still, ahem, a few things lying around. Well, of course, I chose the best bed over the cleaner room (the teenage boy’s room). Well, the room looked very similar to the room my own teenager left behind on the way to college (which she swears she will clean up at break). I told her it reminded me of home. Which it did!</p>
<p>^LOL</p>
<p>Idmom said:
“What she did was a lot of things, but “morally neutral” isn’t one of them.”</p>
<p>I almost made the exact same comment, ROTFL…</p>
<p>The ‘picture taking as a record of messiness’ reminds me of an incident with my son when he was going through a bratty stage as a youngster. One day he was being a little smart mouthed in a discussion, so I pulled out a tape recorder I had on hand (I anticipated this situation in advance), turned it on, and said, “Now would you care to discuss it?” He was speechless after that.</p>
<p>“The characterizations by some on this thread of what these friendships could lead to are way off base. Maybe if we were all 20!!”</p>
<p>At places where I worked I have seen mature adults – including those in their thirties and forties – who dumped their spouses for a coworkers.This included a psychiatrist/psychologist couple who married each other after a workplace romance when both were married to others.</p>
<p>I’ve heard of the same thing happening to people who were far older. </p>
<p>There is no age limit on people’s getting carried away by feelings of love after they got in the habit of unburdening themselves emotionally (including talking about their marital problems) to someone of the opposite sex. Given the fact that many people spend more hours at work than at home, if one isn’t careful, one can develop a stronger emotional bond with a coworker than with one’s spouse.</p>
<p>Northstarmom- You aren’t in MY workplace with MY friends/co-workers. I assure you, we aren’t groping each other under the desks. I realize that workplace affairs happen- I’ve had some myself, but THIS particular group of 50-somethings is looking for something else.</p>
<p>I’m not going to limit my closeness or censor the topics we discuss with each other because “someone might get the wrong idea”.</p>
<p>I know I said I would respect the request to not post anymore on this thread, however, I simply find it impossible to sit on my hands any longer. Begging forgiveness and understanding but this just simply has to be said. </p>
<p>I traveled extensively with, and have worked for years with - and spend very long hours with - very married men. In fact, there are no women at all in my professional life, with the exception of some support staff. Most of the men in my orbit are senior executives, in private industry and in the public sector. </p>
<p>In the first place, we simply do not have even a minute or two to spare to talk about personal lives. We sometimes work 18 hour days, for days and sometimes weeks on end, and still do not have enough time to cover all of the business issues we must cover. In the second place, discussion of another person’s spouse or personal life challenges - simply IS NOT DONE. Ever. This topic isn’t addressed in some career manual or anything, it’s just known, and understood, that it is extremely inappropriate, and unprofessional, not to mention that it would be very disloyal to the marriage, to talk about one’s spouse, or any personal problems. It’s known and understood on the same level that it’s known and understood one does not use profanity, or wear jeans to work. Plus - in my world view - it’s just stone cold sleazy. But on the true level of the executive, revelation of personal matters can also be a matter of security: the executive might be vulnerable, exploitable. (Taken a bit further, in some law enforcement environments, spouses are terrific resources. In the event of marital disagreement the spouse is the most coveted resource for gaining access to the family secrets.) </p>
<p>It isn’t a matter of concern of the dialog opening the door to an affair (at least I don’t think so), rather, it’s a matter of boundaries, courtesy, and acceptable business behavior. If any gentleman ever brought up an issue with a spouse with me, trust me when I tell you, that conversation would be our very last, and I would untangle our association in sub-second speed. At a minimum I would assign off the relationship to someone on my staff, and distance myself immediately. </p>
<p>In personal relationships, I too “borrow” husbands every once in a while. BUT - I always, without exception, know the wife, and, it follows a process: I will call on the telephone, and, if the husband answers the phone, I will ask to speak to his wife. When she comes to the phone, following some small talk, I’ll ask her “do you think Jim could look at the fuse panel for me” (or whatever is the situation). She will either ask him right there, or, she’ll talk to him, and either call me back, or he will call me back. or perhaps he’ll simply show up. There’s no rule book for this - in my world, it’s just simply commonly understood that this is proper protocol for soliciting assistance from a married man, or asking to engage his time. In a non-business situation, never, ever would I call a married man directly for assistance. Without exception, I approach the man’s wife first. And these are people I have known for years and years, socialize with, visit their homes, etc. </p>
<p>Perhaps there are cultural differences that are regional/geographic in nature. Perhaps some professions lend themselves to a more open, relaxed atmosphere than others - sort of like some companies have casual dress days vs. not. Perhaps it’s different if all of the parties involved are long married. Perhaps the workplace is changing, considering people are spending more and more time working, and with the lines between work and home getting blurrier every day, and therefore the problems are exported out of the bedroom and into the boardroom (???). </p>
<p>Children, on the other hand, seem to be a different story altogether. The men I know will talk happily about their children’s various accomplishments and even every once in a while their various, more humorous “everyone at the table can relate” sorts of goof-ups. </p>
<p>As far as it being a good thing for men to have friends to talk to about problems? Terrific. But surely they can find friends and confidants outside of the business environment.</p>
<p>Though MomofWildChild may have all the facts, I don’t think she is, nor should she share them with us. It is obvious from her posts she doesn’t like the exwife, and that may well be justified. It is also obvious from her posts the older daughters don’t get along with the exwife, which also, may well be justified. But this poor man is trapped in the middle. Here is a woman he once loved and brought into the family. For whatever reason, maybe even the fault lies entirely with the wife, it did not work out. However now they have a daughter, who for 10 years lived with two big sisters. He is trying to rebuild relationships in a new model which would allow this youngest daughter to still be in their lives. He understands that as long as the older daughters are threatening his exwife, either by name calling or threats to her personal property, that’s not going to work out. So I can see why he feels his daughters were in the wrong.</p>
<p>To help his 10 year old daughter, he’s trying to build a world where they can all get along. A friend/coworker reminding him that his exwife’s a witch wouldn’t help the situation. That is why I’m hoping MomofWildChild is sharing the exwives trangressions, and how she’s thrilled the daughters got the best of her in this exchange, with us, (Yeah, everyone needs to vent) but not with him. </p>
<p>It’s kind of like when you vent to your spouse about your mother. They aren’t allowed to vent to you about your mother, that’s not helpful.</p>
<p>OOPS- we’ve occasionally used profanity (among ourselves) in the workplace! We have a casual industry and a relatively casual (no jeans) corporate office. We have a very caring CEO and many of the families have known each other for many years. Some, like me, are newer on the scene. I find it to be the absolutely best environment I have ever worked in, and I have been in other companies where we freely discussed our personal lives. </p>
<p>I still think you act like this guy came up to me on my first day at work and said, “My sex life isn’t good!” That’s just not what it is all about. In fact, we first started bonding (besides over work stuff) over our mutual interest in colleges and the application process. That led to issues with our kids being discussed and then the pain of his divorce. He kept the divorce private for over 2 months before he even told me. He is not a person to spill his personal life all over the office, but we are close, and talking to me has been a big help for him. We MAKE time to talk to each other- we go to lunch together in small groups- we grab a drink after work- we grab a few minutes to chat in the offices. We have laptops, cell phones and Blackberries. We work hard, but we find our social interaction very important to our emotional well-being and our job satisfaction.</p>
<p>UCDAlum- my friend, my choice. The ex-wife is far away in a state that is not easy to get to. The older girls will only see their younger sister if they can get home during her visits with the father. I have no horse in the race, and this is not a man who is easily influenced (to his detriment sometimes) by ANYONE. It is what it is.</p>
<p>"This topic isn’t addressed in some career manual or anything, it’s just known, and understood, that it is extremely inappropriate, and unprofessional, not to mention that it would be very disloyal to the marriage, to talk about one’s spouse, or any personal problems. It’s known and understood on the same level that it’s known and understood one does not use profanity, or wear jeans to work. "</p>
<p>This has been my experience, too. In the places where I have worked, people talked about work, the news, their kids’ sports games, but not about things like marital problems or major problems with their kids. Even when people were separated or getting divorces, they didn’t talk about details in the work place. To do so would have been viewed as unprofessional, even sleazy, and the behavior and information would have raised doubts about the individual’s ability to perform their job well. </p>
<p>I’m not sure about regional differences in all parts of the country, but I’ve worked in the NE, Midwest and South, including in the corporate office of a Fortune 500 company.</p>
<p>“Though MomofWildChild may have all the facts, I don’t think she is, nor should she share them with us.”</p>
<hr>
<p>MoWC shared at her friend’s behest…looking for neutral takes on the situation regarding digital camera privacy. Only on CC, would we find so much reading between the lines, analysis of alleged hidden meaning, examination of poster motive and general movement off-topic…lol! After all, I don’t think MoWC would expect to have some of you sitting in judgement or making insinuations regarding the propriety of her friendship with her co-worker. How people choose to BE friends to each other is their business. And frankly, those of you who have gender issues with friendships probably shouldn’t HAVE close friends of the opposite sex.</p>
<p>But hey, fidelity in the workplace sounds like a good topic for ANOTHER thread. ;)</p>
<p>Perhaps folks choose office environments that match their personal values.</p>
<p>back to the Original Topic, lots of mom bashing here, what about dearolddad? he brought in the young wife, and his motives were what? someone mentioned dollar signs, and unless this dad was senile, he knew what he was getting-why he get married in the first place after he lsot his wife</p>
<p>to just bash the new wife is not fair, lots of “blame” to go around</p>
<p>and someone in the military should have neater rooms and not look in someone’s camera, mom shouldn’t be taking pictures and dad needs to step up…he is as much as fault as anyone in this</p>
<p>“this poor man” created part of this mess…</p>
<p>citygirlsmom- you have it all backwards, but good try. It was an 11 year marriage, and, no, you don’t always know what you are getting. To me it seems like neither of them knew what they were getting! If I had just done 4 years at a military academy, I might want a couple of weeks break from picking up my room, too. As I said, my friend claims a lot of the blame for the demise of the marriage. He would not have left it, though, even though it would have been better for ALL the girls if he had done so years ago.
If you are inferring that my friend married for money, you have that backwards. There wasn’t a ton of money involved here, but a solid professional with a good future (my friend) who had a job in the town where the wife wanted to stay. The next step up career-wise didn’t pan out, the company relocated the office and things weren’t what the wife signed up for. The feisty little girls didn’t go well with stepmom’s silk shower curtains…</p>
<p>I wish a messy room were the worst of my kids’ issues growing up! WildChild keeps his room like a military barracks, interestingly enough.</p>
<p>I am putting in my request for a drumstick – seems like the OP is getting barbequed here.</p>
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This is not clear. What is “sleazy”? Using profanity? wearing jeans?talking about personal matters? non-married people attacking married people?? </p>
<p>I don’t wear jeans to work, but my h does, on specified Fridays. So does the CEO (of a fortune 100 company). If a male shows up in the office in a suit, it is instantly assumed he is heading out to a job interview!!</p>
<p>I don’t think some of you have been in the workplace for the last couple of decades. Maybe lawyers just like to blab and be sleazy.</p>