Invited to shabbaton dinner--what to expect?

Parent Cafe
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<p>My 6th grade son is attending a Jewish Day School which I would call “mainstream”. This is my son’s first year at the school. The secular subject teachers are not Jewish, the Judaic studies teachers are Jewish. I have found that the large majority of the parents at the day school are not “orthodox”, with a number of families being interfaith and quite liberal. </p>

<p>My son has been invited, along with the rest of his class, to Shabbaton at the home of one of the school’s rabbis. These original invitations went out as a sleepover, but due to lack of interest, it’s now just dinner and an evening. I have never been to a Shabbaton and have no idea what is expected. </p>

<p>Having no clue as to what is involved, I mentioned this to one of my “parent friends” who identifies as “conservative”. Thinking along the lines that as a guest my son might be expected to make a contribution (understandably Kosher), I asked her if I should send food, and she said that “they wouldn’t allow it”. She mentioned that he really needed to be warmly dressed because they walk to shul. She also mentioned that I’d have to knock when I brought him to the house, not ring the doorbell. Seeing how clueless I was, she said that they are “ultra-orthodox”. While she encouraged that he should go, I could be wrong, but I got the feeling from the tone of her voice and expression when she said that they are “ultra-conservative” that it was not a compliment. Another person at the school mentioned that there would be candles and said that an evening with them is “quite interesting”. Ok, so I am understanding this simply to mean that they do not use any electricity after sundown, not a problem.</p>

<p>I don’t know how else to put it, but we put not restrictions on our son by gender, and in fact go out of our way to break gender barriers. One of the teachers mentioned that the Shabbaton is “very traditional” and that the girls would be cooking and serving the boys. She said that she would talk to the rabbi because my son had told her that he wants to cook too. In my family, if he wants to do “traditionally female things” – dance, cook, sew, whatever-- he can. My son loves to cook with me and I’m not surprised that he’d ask if he can cook rather than sit and be served. </p>

<p>He really wants to go and I have agreed that he may go tonight for dinner and whatever they do after dinner and will be picked up at night. I have a few questions:</p>

<p>1) Is a gift expected for their hospitality?</p>

<p>2) What should I tell my son to expect?</p>

<p>3) This is not really a question, I’m not even sure that I can frame my concerns on this – I am always “real” with my son. I told my son that I am giving my consent to spend time with what has been called an “ultra-orthodox” environment, even though I do not agree with such views. I explained that I am against rigid sex roles. I’m not expecting that he will be allowed to cook with the girls. It is the fact that he asked to cook, with no expectation that it would be refused, that demonstrates to me that he has no understanding that there are people in the world that would tell him “No” simply because he is a boy. One reason that I am consenting is that I feel that part of an education includes my son learning about other people and lifestyles, and how to get along with others of differing views. However, given his age, how he has been raised, the fact that I know so little about this rabbi and what “ultra-orthodox” means, I wonder if he should be spending time in this environment at this age at all. </p>

<p>Anyhow, would appreciate any thoughts.</p>

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<p>If it were my son, I would tell him in advance that certain things may be very different, and that as a guest he should be prepared to go along with the rules of the house in a gracious way and neither comment nor make a fuss. I would tell him that this is a valuable opportunity to experience another tradition, and that he can observe and take it all in. I would tell him that I look forward to hearing about it when he comes home. I might have a conversation with him about gender-based religious rules in Judaism and in other religions beforehand. In fact, if my son were attending a religious school of any kind, discussions of the beliefs and rules of the religion would be a regular part of our lives anyway.</p>

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<p>1) If he has been invited to Friday night dinner, there will be no cooking done, not by boys or by girls. Sabbath-observant Jews don’t cook on the Sabbath. I have been to many Shabbat dinners at orthodox and ultra-orthodox homes. Although women in fact do the majority of the serving and clearing at MOST, there is no prohibition or commandment against men and boys doing the same, and I very much doubt that this will be an issue. If I’m wrong, let me know.</p>

<p>2) Although there will be candles lit in honor of the Sabbath, Orthodox Jews do in fact use electric light (their house will also be heated). What they don’t do is turn lights (or other electrical appliances) on or off on the Sabbath.</p>

<p>3) I don’t think a gift is required. If you want to send one anyway, it it’s a gift of food make sure it is certified Kosher (so, not home made). Otherwise, flowers might be nice.
I’d be surprised if a gift is expected, however.</p>

<p>4) Your questions are all good ones (albeit slightly naive for a parent who actually has a kid at day school. I’m just in shock, but never mind - clearly i know less about the world than I thought I did). I would think that the teacher who invited your son would be the best source of answers on all this, however. Maybe you can send him an e-mail - I’m sure you will get more meaningful reassurance from him (or her?) than from me.</p>

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<p>Sending flowers is always lovely. We have neighbors who are very religious. If the invitation is for Friday night there will be hot food. Saturday night…no cooking until sundown. </p>

<p>I third the suggestion of calling up and seeing what is needed and/or expected. Tell him to have fun!</p>

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<p>I’m a little surprised that an “ultra-orthodox” rabbi would be comfortable with children being picked up (presumably by car) and driven home from his house on Friday evening while it is still Shabbat. Many people don’t feel comfortable creating a situation where anyone would need to violate the sabbath restrictions, even if they know full well that the people in question aren’t sabbath-observant. I’m wondering if perhaps he is Conservative, but on the very observant end of things?</p>

<p>Before dinner, there will be certain blessings said over candles, wine, and bread, and possibly a blessing for the woman of the house and for the children. Some blessings may be sung. </p>

<p>After dinner there will grace after meals, which is a lengthy blessing usually sung. Often there would then be singing of sabbath songs around the table.</p>

<p>I imagine the rabbi will explain everything as he goes along so that it’s an educational experience for the guests.</p>

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<p>Ok all, I’m on my way to get my son from school and will pick up flowers for him to bring as a gift. </p>

<p>There has been no formal information on the expectations given, but I would not normally ask someone “Do you expect a gift”? LOL. Of all of the comments, one person had mentioned to me that the reason this was originally a “sleepover” was because they do not want parents to have to drive on the Sabbath. It was a teacher that told me of the girls cooking. Maybe it happens before sundown. My son attends sports until 5:30 and when I told a parent that I didn’t know if he could come because it was late, I had been told by a parent to just say that my son is coming, don’t mention that he’ll be late, and to knock and not use the doorbell. </p>

<p>Anyhow, I just want to try to make sure that my son does not commit a “faux pas”, and Consolation’s suggestion on not to make a fuss is a good one. I am excited to hear from him about the experience.</p>

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<p>I doubt a gift is expected. Extending hospitality for shabbat is a routine part of Jewish life. A thank-you note afterwards would be lovely.</p>

<p>Don’t worry too much about your son committing a faux pas. Actually, because your son is not Jewish, he is not obliged to refrain from using the electric lights, riding in a car, etc. If HE were to ring the doorbell, this wouldn’t be a problem. It’s not that there can be no electricity USED in the Jewish home. It’s that the Jew him/herself cannot “light a fire” (or perform several other categories of work). If a non-Jew in the home decides to turn on a light, that’s not a problem. </p>

<p>You can buy timers for your lights and your stove and whatnot so that they go on an off during Shabbat. You just can’t TURN them on. (Some people unscrew the lightbulb in the fridge so it doesn’t turn on when they open the refrigerator door.)</p>

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<p>What a lovely idea from the rabbi and his wife, to invite their students to a Shabbot meal. I suspect they will use the occasion to teach the significance of the rituals.</p>

<p>i second what DeskPotato said, most likely a Conservative rabbi.</p>

<p>I have many Modern Orthodox friends, and some husbands do help out, and more so, the sons.</p>

<p>It was exciting the first time my son spent Xmas eve with his Catholic friend, attending midnight Mass. He’s also enjoyed a Quinceanera.</p>

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<p>Sundown is at 5:50 pm today. Just try to get him there before then if you can, so they can open the door.</p>

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<p>Find out what to do if he needs the bathroom. In many observant homes, toilet paper is torn beforehand and the electric light in a bathroom is left on throughout Shabbat, meaning if someone turns it off when leaving, out of habit (or forgets to leave it on), the next visitor may not be able to turn it on again.</p>

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<p>Mom, don’t reach out to shake hands with the male rabbi.</p>

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<p>If this school is as diverse as Testaduro says, I’m sure a lot of the Jewish kids won’t be in the habit of observing the laws of Shabbat either. The Jewish kids won’t know not to tear paper, or turn the lights off or on–or if they know from school, they won’t remember. I’m sure the rabbi’s intention is to teach the kids in the school about the laws and traditions for observing Shabbat, and he expects mistakes to be made, and commandments to be violated unintentionally.</p>

<p>Like others, I highly doubt that this rabbi is “ultra-Orthodox.” Liberal or secular Jews like to throw the word “Orthodox” around as a way of disparaging anybody more observant than they are. It’s as if “ultra-Orthodox” means “anybody more religious than I am,” and “apostate” is another way of saying “anybody less religious than I am.”</p>

<p>But if you’re still reading, Testaduro, I would second the advice not to offer your hand to the rabbi. (Never mind the reasons. You really don’t want to know. These are not some laws that I favor or observe. But if you want to respect somebody else’s religious tradition and practices–in his own home, yet–wait and see whether he offers you his hand.)</p>

<p>And now, if you’ll excuse me, we have to light Shabbat candles at our house.</p>

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<p>I find it interesting when those mention not shaking hands with the Rabbi. I grew up in a Sephardic synagogue (leans toward Orthodox) and currently belong to a Conservative synagogue (leans toward Traditional.) At both synagogues the Rabbis are huggers and kissers, which tells you a little about each of them. That said, I would not extend my hand to a Rabbi I didn’t know, but I love my current and past Rabbi for who they are.</p>

<p>As a child I spent many a weekend at the home of my Orthodox neighbor as I was a babysitter to their children. I walked to shul with them often and had Shabbat dinner with them. Your child will have a wonderful evening and it will be a great learning experience. I agree with someone above that mentioned it was odd that if this person is so Orthodox that he would be ok with the children being picked up by car later in the evening. My guess is while he is more religious that some, he is not Orthodox. Please let us know how the evening went.</p>

<p>Shabbat Shalom!</p>

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<p>Update, please. Did the evening go OK?</p>

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<p>The Chabad-Lubavitch are very gracious about hosting Shabbat dinners for Jews from all backgrounds, and they know darn well that people are going to drive there and drive back. And they are certainly Orthodox. I’ve found them to care about what goes on in their own home, of course, in terms of using lights, but to also understand that they aren’t going to “convert the world” in one shot, and if it takes someone driving on Shabbat to get closer to wanting to do other mitzvot, then that’s what it takes. At least that’s my observation.</p>

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<p>^^^yup. Definitely has been my experience as well.</p>

<p>We attend a Conservative synagogue, and there is a wide range of observance within the community. Some do not keep kosher, some will not drive on Shabbat (and choose to live within walking distance of synagogue), some will go from shul to their kids’ sports activities. We all get along. :)</p>

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<p>I doubt it, your typical boy would certainly be trefe no matter how he was prepared.</p>

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<p>^^^^^ lol!!</p>

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<p>This is an “old” thread but I’m wondering how the Shabbaton turned out…</p>

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<p>Is Shabbaton a real word? I never heard that growing up.</p>