<p>Just got home from errands and listened to NPR Talk of the Nation. Guests included Ted Koppel, Anne Garrels, and Hoda Abdel Hamid (now with Al Jazeera…Hoda that is). They discussed their experiences as journalists in Iraq and ended with their opinion on a US pullout from Iraq.</p>
<p>All three basically said we cannot pullout from Iraq now, regardless of anyone’s opinion on whether we should have gone in to begin with. All said the ensuing chaos would engulf the entire middle east, and while a modest troop drawdown might be doable, the US could and should anticipate maintaining a military presence of “tens of thousands” of troops for a very very long time.</p>
<p>Hoda, the gal from Al Jazeera, said all the campaign talk of a pullout by the democratic candidates was making the locals (not just Iraqis) extremely nervous and paralyzing efforts to reconcile govt officials to a united position of governance. Basically the exact opposite of what I think we want from them.</p>
<p>This was very similar to a Newsweek article I read where the reporter was at a US - Muslim conference is Doha (about technology i think) and all the muslims wanted to talk about was the election and how the US couldn’t pull out of Iraq or mass death and destruction (parade of horribles) would ensue.</p>
<p>We could have taken the First Plan of W; But the Second Plan of W was better; And the Third Plan better still. I think we have come close in settling on the Sixth Plan. Have you been counting? </p>
<p>I’m looking for a candidate who really gives us some straight talk on Iraq. You know, how it was a terrible, possibly a criminal mistake to go in. How it has cost us a huge amount in terms of American life, limb and treasure. But how it has cost even more, far, far more, in terms of Iraqi life, limb, treasure and social unrest. How it has fomented terrorism and anti-American sentiment. How it has strengthened Iran and weakened our standing in the world. And about how we have actually lost the war.</p>
<p>And then, I want that candidate to say that now that we are there, we have no option except to stay there in sufficient numbers and for sufficient length of time to allow the troops to bring back normalcy to Iraq. How we are morally obligated to fix what we have broken, even if it costs us more in terms of American life and treasure. And how we will need to institute a retroactive “Bush/Cheney Iraq war tax” to recover the price of this war. </p>
<p>I don’t see such a candidate. But looking just to the future and ignoring his stupid talk about “victory”, I am more aligned with McCain’s plan than Hillary or Obama’s.</p>
<p>Everything we do causes anti-American sentiment. And yet I have a strange notion that if given the chance, those same people would come running to live here.</p>
<p>“All said the ensuing chaos would engulf the entire middle east, and while a modest troop drawdown might be doable, the US could and should anticipate maintaining a military presence of “tens of thousands” of troops for a very very long time.”</p>
<p>Perhaps troops need to remain but I’m not sure they have to be U.S. troops. If the U.S. leaving would be a problem for others, perhaps those others should pool troops and assume the responsibility. In any case, whether troops stay or leave should be an issue for the Iraqi people, not U.S. or Iraqi government blow hards. The Iraqi people should vote – they’ve had a free election and it worked pretty well given how intrinsically divided they are, and they can best assess whether they can manage the consequences of either result. If two-thirds approve, troops should stay; otherwise troops should leave. Iraq belongs to Iraqis and they should decide whether occupation by foreign troops improves or degrades the quality of their lives.</p>
<p>VP, I hear you. I heard McCain talking on the radio and he was saying that he believed in letting the military run the war rather than civilians. He said what he learned from Vietnam was that the civilians tend to screw things up. Kind of like McNamara did. (you know, i wonder how many college students who are going to vote even know who McNamara is). (2nd aside, i always thought Rumsfeld looked like McNamara and he certainly gave us similar results)</p>
<p>I was talking about this with my Obama D and she thought McCain should be totally opposed to war due to his background, but on the radio he seemed to be saying something like I understand is Powell’s view. Avoid war at all costs, but once engaged play to win. That includes not just strategy but equipment, etc. McCain said he thinks Petraeus is doing the right thing and we should just let him continue to do it. No micromanaging.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is Rumsfeld/Cheney screwed us over big time. Maybe if McCain had been pres instead of W this would have all gone better. Of course, now I worry he’s too old.</p>
<p>Hopefully sanity and not knee-jerk, pandering politics will prevail.</p>
<p>BTW, the views expressed on NPR are consistent with views from NYT’s reporters and others who know the situation there very intimately. Obama and Clinton are clearly subscribing to “Hope” that things don’t go to Hell in a hand basket and then we will have to send troops back in to fight a much more perilous battle to restore order.</p>
<p>Absolutely. This is not inconsistent. The rank and file of the Muslim world would love to either move here OR, enjoy the same freedom, prosperity and security that we enjoy here. The immigrants are not coming here to see Niagara falls and Yellowstone. They are coming here for economic opportunity. </p>
<p>If we change our foreign policies to promote peace and prosperity, we will not have an immigration problem.</p>
<p>Ah, but unfortunately, there’s no way to just get all these countries to give their citizens the same freedoms we enjoy. Not only would we be stepping on the toes of sovereignty (This frustrated the heck out of us during our International Negotiations Project), we’d probably get nuked. XD</p>
<p>“The immigrants are…coming here for economic opportunity…If we change our foreign policies to promote peace and prosperity, we will not have an immigration problem.”</p>
<p>Yup! And it’s surprising how few people understand this.</p>
<p>I think there needs to be more systems like Gramin Bank (I’m sure I spelled that wrong). It’s working wonders…wherever it’s being used (I can’t quite seem to remember, we watched a video on it last semester in my Economics class).</p>
<p>Sorry VP; but you’re not going to get the type of straight talk you are looking for. Because it would be a lie if they said the things you want to hear. Sorry; I’ve been there. What you believe and what’s there are 2 different things.</p>
<p>I think we’ve done enough ethnic cleansing for a decade. 1.5-1.7 million dead; 2.2 million refugees fled the country (more than 600,000 under General Betrayus between July and October alone); 2 million more internal refugees. The economy in shambles after our so-called reconstruction. Now it’s time to accept the refugees we’ve created - so many of them well-educated and pro-Western - and leave the country to the rule of its democratic majority.</p>
<p>Of course what mini conveniently overlooks is the real ethnic cleansing that will occur if his morally corrupt position is implemented. As a local Sunni sheik recently said in response to what will happen if the US pulls out: “I’ll be the first one to get out”.</p>
<p>Looking at this through the eyes of a chess player , We must calculate three or four moves ahead. If you can’t see us winning we must play to a drawal IMO. I see a possible “check if not checkmate” if we pullout prematurely.Past mistakes can be overcome. Future mistakes are to be avoided!</p>
<p>With oil prices at historical highs with no sign of dropping due to a botched monetary policy by our current administration, nations like UAE, Saudi Arabia and the other oil states are enjoying unprecedented surpluses. UAE is expected to have over 200 billion in surplus for 2007. What are they doing with the money? Their soveriegn funds are buying up US assets on the cheap. We are proctecting their interests in the region and have cheap dollars for them to invest in our banks, real estate, etc. I say you demand these oil sheiks to pony up for the protection in the form of artificial lower cost oil that goes into federal stockpile that can be sold at a profit. We get played for fools. We also need to tighten our monetary policy to get the dollar back in shape. No one wants to tackle these issues because there is short-term pain.</p>