Is anything not someone else's fault: or, do we coddle our children?

<p>How many threads on CC start like this: “DS is a gifted ____ , but is bored by the simple assignments in HS, so he gets Bs…”</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>“DD is got a 23 on the ACT, but had a cold and is going to retake…”</p>

<p>or </p>

<p>“I got a D in physics because my teacher is really unfair and picks on me and decided not to give any As this year…”</p>

<p>I normally don’t reply to these, because I don’t think the people are ready to hear the truth (at least not from me) which is, your children (while “special”) might not be gifted. Harvard might not be keeping a spot open for them just because they had Honors Pre-calc as a junior. </p>

<p>And they deserved that C in Biology.
And the teacher wasn’t unfair to you.
And they won’t be getting going up 350 points on the SAT because of a cold.
And you need to study more and turn your homework in on time and not be so … (can we still say this in 2008?) lazy.</p>

<p>Are you doing our children a disservice by advocating so strongly for them that we lose all connection to reality?<br>
Should we acknowledge their shortcomings as such, and not as a result of external forces?</p>

<p>I’ll say why I believe it’s important to be straight with them in a later post.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You hear this a lot because it happens a lot.</p>

<p>Sometimes the parent is out of touch with reality. But sometimes, it is a case where parental intervention is a good decision. Many times these case lie in gray areas. Parenting is a daily thing for many years. It is difficult to always do the right thing. </p>

<p>As a whole, however, many of us, myself included, have coddled and spoiled our kids much to our detriment. It is usually not a specific action or event but the whole dang way we handle things. I had to face this in terms of my older ones having problems with dealing with money. The reality that they are in a low income group once they are out of my house was a tough one for them to take, as they enjoyed upper middle class luxuries living here at home. We eat out, go to shows, enjoy vacations that are waaaay out of their budgets. In retrospect, I would have been less indulgent, and am trying to do so with the younger one. However, there are many things that I want to do and have them experience that they will not be able to do on their initial incomes, and I don’t see keeping them from that as a lesson. It is not that easy. Sometimes unfair situations at school should have parental intervention because that is all that is going to solve the problem. After all, it is the parents responsibility to provide the school environment. On the other hand, if the parents are intervening to the point where it is not appropriate, it is a problem. It is not always evident.</p>

<p>There was a teacher at my son’s school who was clearly having struggles. Without parents bringing it to the adminstration’s attention, the situation would have gone on much longer before being addressed. And it truly needed to be addressed. On the other hand, schools are not indulgent about every complaint a parent makes about his kids.</p>

<p>MSUDad…I am with you 100%. I am more than sick and tired of people making excuses for their children who are soon to be “independent adults”</p>

<p>I am tired of hearing 19 year olds say to their parents…“.I don’t want or need your advice or help because I am an adult now, but I am appalled that you will not pay for everything because I am, afterall your kid”!!</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the kids are this way because the parents not only make excuses for their kids, they also cannot be accountable for their own actions or consequences of their decisions.</p>

<p>Hence the problems that we have with the mortgage crisis right now. Nobody FORCED those people to sign loan docs for mortgages that were going to ballon and put them into sure forclosure.</p>

<p>Those parents are also “letter writers” for everything from a bug in their food to wanting a refund due to lost luggage on an airline.</p>

<p>These might seem like silly examples, but if the parents operate that way, why would the kids not expect that mom and dad would “draw their sword” everytime something goes wrong.</p>

<p>Life is not fair, it is not like Church or Sunday School everywhere you go, and until we have a majority of society that shifts their thinking, we are stuck with a generation of young people that simply feels “entitled”!!</p>

<p>Yes, many kids are coddled way too much today. Helicopter parents hover over them throwing “bumper pads” around their kids so they don’t experience cuts and bruising along the way. Of course, this is an exaggeration but even the most well intentioned parent can stifle the natural growing up process of their children. How many parents have learned to use the public school system to their kid’s advantage by pushing the idea that their kid has a disability? Yes, many kids do have true disabilities and they deserve all the help they can get. Yet, I’ve seen parents push for OT and scribes and extra time because their kids have bad handwriting or “don’t like to write”. I’ve seen parents unwilling to accept the fact that their kids are C students (it must be because they have ADD or whatever excuse they can come up with). I’ve seen “C” kids come into school with outstanding projects (obviously completed by the parents) and the parents believe that the teachers are going to think that their kids did all of the work themselves. </p>

<p>For crying out loud people, accept your kids for who they are, throw away the rose colored glasses, and give them the space they need to grow up into competent and self-sufficient adults. Let them make mistakes. Get rid of the bumper pads and them learn from their own experiences.</p>

<p>Hoorah!..nysmile. Couldn’t have said it better myself!! :)</p>

<p>I am sorry for the length of this, but you may find it interesting. Part of the work on the “Theory of Excuses”. I think there was a specific book a few years ago.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Bravo, MSUDad, thank you for starting this. I share your frustration and agree with many that the bumper pads need to be removed (in most, not all, circumstances) so that our teenagers can learn that actions (or inactions) have consequences. </p>

<p>For me, it takes a lot of restraint to read those “My kid is brilliant, but s/he can’t be bothered to do the daily homework, so what do we do when s/he gets a C in the class and it ruins their GPA and then they can’t get into an Ivy and gets stuck with all of the ‘dumber’ kids at lesser U?” threads without coming unglued.</p>

<p>As parents, we all love our children and want the best for them. But our kids have to contribute to the process for the “best” to be achieved or awarded.</p>

<p>We have provided our kids with a luxurious lifestyle (at least compared to my upbringing) in part because of the stark lifestyle I enjoyed. There must be many of us out there because it seems to be a generational thing. It seems to me that the parents of my generation worked and lived for themselves first and then the children whereas my generation works and lives for the kids first. As a result our kids truly do believe they are entitled. It’s as if we are trying to ensure that every hurt/slight/disappointment/self esteem damage we faced as a child is not ever faced by our children. We are doing our society a great disservice as our kids are not facing hardship or the consequences of their actions. When the time comes that they do, they will be ill prepared to handle it.</p>

<p>As for those kids who don’t want to do busy work because it is below them and they are too intelligent for it. They need to be told that a sign of intelligence is doing that which is required to get a desired result. To achieve a high gpa one must do the busywork…then do the busy work.</p>

<p>MSUdad you must be a teacher. I grew up with a teacher/mom and the teacher gangs in our house and they used to roll their eyeballs constantly about the increasingly high incidence of “brilliant gifted kids” and I say that with tongue in cheek. In my parents generation “precocious” used to be the politically correct way to speak of a kid who was obnoxious. Perhaps those “precocious” children grew up to be this generation’s “helicopter parents.” This thread is sad, but it makes me laugh, too. I, do, appreciate the fact that the “smart” kids are held in higher esteem than when I went through school but on the other hand I do grow quite weary of the parents who promote their chldren and/or simply can’t see their children for who they are.</p>

<p>Personally, I think this is a pretty mean-spirited thread, especially as it is largely directed at one readily identifiable post. </p>

<p>Yes, some parents have an inflated idea of their children’s abilities. Somehow, I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world for a child to have a parent like that. </p>

<p>But there are also kids who really ARE brilliant or especially talented in some way who just don’t do well in elementary and high school. There are a wide variety of reasons for this. Sometimes a kid is “lopsided” academically. This matters a lot more in high school that in college. ( I know an elementary school foreign language teacher who swears that there is an inverse relationship between math and foreign language ability. All her best students struggle in math and all the math superstars are really bad at foreign language.) Sometimes a kid is really disorganized and then just matures and gets it all together. Some kids ask questions beyond the scope of a high school teacher’s knowledge–and some teachers dislike such kids. </p>

<p>In this case, we have a poster who has a son who won first place in the state science fair three years in a row AND is on a nationally ranked mock trial team. I don’t think it’s unrealistic for the parent to think this is a pretty special kid.</p>

<p>I have found through the years and the kiddos that I tend to gravitate toward parents who parent like I do. Haven’t found many.</p>

<p>I am/was the “MEANY” mom. Maybe it had something to do with having 5 of them in 6-7 years! I would have liked being the “Yes” mom but it wasn’t going to happen. 3 naughty boys and 2 girls trying to keep up with their brothers made for a crazy house, so order was often necessary.</p>

<p>So no mine did not/do not feel entitled. No cars for them. No drivers’ license until they could afford the insurance and the car to drive. And it wouldn’t be my car either. We only had one car. No cell phones, no computers. Lessons, club dues, anything extra they had to earn. And they could NOT have a part-time job. Their job was school. So they had to be creative about funding and financing. And they did, traded coaching, cleaning, tutoring, for whatever it they wanted. But it couldn’t interfere with school.</p>

<p>All transportation had to be coordinated through me. Had to make all efforts to eat all meals together. If that meant they all got up at o’dark-thirty for breakfast so they could all have 1 meal together than so be it. Middle daughter had a 5:30 am daily swim practice, so I do mean early!</p>

<p>All had to move heaven and earth to attend all Friday night games brothers were playing in for all 4 years per brother, others had to attend all swim and dive and gymnastics meets. Only exceptions was their own practice and games. Social activities never pre-empted academics or athletics. And yes in our house athletics was as emphasized as academics. Did not matter whether you were talented/gifted in either area you were going to participate and give 100%, all the time.</p>

<p>See, mean mom. Granted as a single mom thought I had to be mom and dad so like some chemical synergies morphed into “THE MAMA”. Yes, in all caps. If they were down on the field and I didn’t hear a “love you MAMA”, he** to pay! and from their siblings!! Still that way today as big college men! Think defensive line.</p>

<p>At the same time I didn’t have curfew. Since they knew they needed to keep up their grades and athletic performance coming in super late wouldn’t cut it. As 3 season varsity athletes there were no missed practices, no absences. All ended up as captains and a few are state champions. And in more than 1 state- we moved mid high school for all of them. Fun. </p>

<p>They were hungry, still are. From my boys size I don’t mean food-wise!! They know their life/decisions/choices are up to them. There are no do-overs.</p>

<p>They live and breathe, “to whom much is given, much is expected.”</p>

<p>And yes I am a helicopter parent. Not with the schools, or community or sports, but with them. They just LOVE that!</p>

<p>My pet peeve: If I call their name, they CANNOT answer with a “What?” Nope, nope, nope. And they better have something medically wrong with them if they are rolling their eyes.</p>

<p>And yes, they were in the gifted/talented programs. Sometimes hindered more than it helped.</p>

<p>They do expect my attention but in turn they better give me something to watch!</p>

<p>Kat
aka as “The Emperor” (star wars)</p>

<p>S2 often got a mixture of As, Bs & a few Cs in HS although ended with a 3.6 GPA, 1 AP (done independently), a few honors courses. However, he devoted himself so fully to his music, that we told him we wouldn’t interfere but he needed to be aware of a few things. (1) He would suffer whatever consequences were meted out for missed assignments, etc. (2) He needed to maintain a decent GPA to be admitted to the schools he wanted to attend. </p>

<p>We jokingly told both our kids when something happened or went wrong or one or the other was wrongly accused of something, that it was always their fault. “You’re a kid. Everything is your fault.” To this day, his favorite T-shirt was one we found at a truck stop that says “It’s all my fault!”</p>

<p>jonri- I don’t think the OP is directing this at one particular post. There IS a pattern of this type of thinking!</p>

<p>Yes, there are kids who are bored with high school or assignments that are not challenging. Guess what? They will grow up and have jobs where they often have to do uninteresting and tedious tasks- even in the professional ranks. It’s fine to be bored and not like what one has to do. But- if you don’t figure out a way to get through it, then don’t expect to be competitive with those students (or co-workers) who DO figure this out. </p>

<p>There are many instances of sub-par teachers (or bosses) and awards might not always go to the most deserving candidate. It’s OK to be upset and frustrated and we ALL want to go to bat for our kids and create a soft landing. However, the people who seem to do the best in life do so despite being “bored” or not making valedictorian because they can’t pass PE.</p>

<p>If we want to guide our children in the college selection process, it’s important to be realistic about our children’s abilities and clear-eyed about the kinds of students who will be competing for the same spots.</p>

<p>Parents who set false expectations or are convinced their kids are “too good” for match/safety schools are doing them a huge disservice.</p>

<p>I don’t know whose post the thread is directed at.<br>
But I have experience with two kids who were bored because the work was way too easy. One is my own S; the other is his cousin.
S was bored because the curriculum was well below what he already knew. He is one of these people who do well when truly challenged. Even in college, he flubs introductory courses but does very well in graduate level classes. In high school, he had to take a particular course which happened to be at the introductory level that year. He already knew 2/3 of the materials needed for the course. In the first semester he did poorly and was disruptive, mostly talking with another student in the same predicament. Finally, the teacher allowed the two of them to select their own project, rather than one from her own list. They chose an extremely difficult one, and put all their efforts into it, even doing more outside school; they stopped yakking away in class.<br>
I’ve written enough about S that it’s easy to dig up my posts.
I’ll move on to his cousin who came into kindergarten already knowing how to read; in first grade, the teacher kept scolding him for not staying put at circle time when she read to the kids out of a book. He would wander off to look for books that he had not already read. She took his wandering off as a sign of immaturity and even suggested to his parents that he might be ■■■■■■■■. She did not even notice that he was able to read all by himself and did not want to be read to.
We parents need to accept our kids as they are; and sometimes, they are different from the majority of kids. And I would hope that teachers would recognize it, too.
College is different from k-12; there are literally hundreds of colleges a high achieving student could thrive at.</p>

<p>I’ll share an experience that just floored me this week at my Junior son’s HS open house…</p>

<p>To set the stage, he is in several honors classes - at his school, a public, many of the “honors” kids end up in several classes together - mostly because by junior year they are mostly all doing the pre-cal, chemistry, AP euro, etc… track. </p>

<p>At open house, parents basically take their child’s schedule starting with 1st hour and spend 10 minutes in each class - kind of a mini-class, to hear from the teachers what expectations/plans/class format is like. </p>

<p>In one case in chemistry class, one mom (who I know fairly well and who’s son is bright) proudly announced that she had made flash cards for her son to learn the 50 required chemistry elements they must know by the end of September. Are you kidding me? SHE made them? SHE is making sure he does his “flash cards” every night?! No. In my house, my kids would never expect me OR allow me to do their work - they made the flash cards and yes, if they want me to quiz them a couple of times fine. But the process is THEIR responsibility. </p>

<p>In another case we were in Senior Composition class. Right, all kids (except my son who is a junior and who was recommended by the teacher as a junior) are seniors. Heading off to college next year. Alone (I hope!). In the class the kids have a senior project that they work on all year that encompasses research, a lengthy paper, a presentation and a final “product”. I asked the teacher to briefly review the timeline just so we could have a picture in our minds of how/when they should be moving along on this project. The teacher pointed out a timeline that the kids had already been given - one parent yells out “what!?” Turns to her son (another annoyance to me - this is “parents” open house - the kids do not need to be there, they should know what class expectations are) and says “why did you not give me that timeline?! I need to know when WE need to get this stuff done!” Again, sorry, no. It is not Mom’s job to pin the timeline on the refrigerator and check off deadlines! Encourage them, guide them, YES! But if this kid is going to go off to college next year, he needs to be taking responsibility now!</p>

<p>To me, that’s coddling.</p>

<p>I keep reading about parent’s who insist their children take one music class and one other activity at all times. Where does that come from? Is it something your schools suggest?</p>

<p>I don’t see this as mean spirited or directed toward any one poster. The thoughts presented here as relevant and insightful. It’s a topic many parents don’t like to face because it often hits too close to home.</p>

<p>To have your parent be your champion is usually good, unless in doing so, the parent neglects to teach their child how to be able to be THEIR OWN champion. In American society, we are overwhelmed with evidence that this is happening with alarming frequency (at least how I see it; YMMV).</p>

<p>It IS quite scandalous these days to call anyone “lazy”, even when it is accurate (not directed toward anyone on this chat forum or their kid!).</p>

<p>Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child.</p>

<p>The harder you work, the luckier you get.</p>

<p>(Neither of the last two sentences are mine, but I couldn’t find their authors and I’ve got to go get ready for work. I largely agree with their sentiments, though.)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Maybe it depends on what income bracket your parents had, but I totally disagree. I think my parents’ generation did everything for their kids but in a totally different way. My parents never ate out, never took vacations except for one summer road trip with us. They never “re-did” the house. They did not give us a lot of spending money.<br>
They both worked full-time the whole time I was growing up and expected from us good grades and part-time jobs. They were not afraid to throw in some Catholic “guilt” to make sure we had consciences. They told us upfront that life was not easy. They saved lots of money. We still paid most of our own college costs (you could, back then) but they were generous with things like deposits for first homes.
Were they “fun” parents? No. Were they supportive? Absolutely. Did we want to live at home forever? No way! We were champing at the bit to get out and have our own places. It meant we were grown up and on our own, had freedom AND responsibility. It wasn’t about staying home because mom and dad had flat-screen TV.
It floors me that kids today don’t want to leave home!</p>