<p>My suggestion for setting up the rules and expectations with appropriate punishment consequences is directed towards the younger teenager. Once they hit junior/senior year, stop nagging them about getting their assignments done and let them deal with the grade consequences of not completing assignments or failing to hand in assignments on time. There comes a point when they need to take ownership of their lives (with parents stepping back and the young adult stepping up).<br>
Punishment–make him get a job. If he’s not going to put in the effort in school, what about making him get a part time job. Getting a job was not considered punishment in our house (it was a given that our sons work part time) but for others, it can be a wakeup call for kids that they need to get a good education or spend their lives working at such jobs. You’re the parent and you know what punishment would work best for your son.
Fallout for bad grades–punishment when they’re younger. By junior/senior year, the fallout for bad grades means the kid doesn’t get to go to the school of his choice. Too bad–his consequence for slacking off. Let him go to community college so he can prove to himself and to you that he is willing to put in the effort. Our kids understood what was expected of them and the consequences. They did their part and more and the reward is that they are attending the colleges that they chose (and which fit our college financial budget).</p>
<p>How do you punish a kid that doesn’t mind spending time in his room and will read for hours?</p>
<p>It’s time that he get out of his room and into the world. As I mentioned earlier, a part time job will get him out of his room, help him gain social skills, help him gain self esteem, and teach him responsibility. </p>
<p>I don’t agree with you that colleges will see a score of 5 on an AP exam and weigh that more heavily than the course grade. They look at the rigor of the high school curriculum, the GPA, class ranking, extracurriculars, teacher recommendations, and the essays. The AP test score is not a major consideration in the process. The AP test score is used for credit evaluation but you have to have the GPA, Ranking, EC’s, and recommendations to get accepted.</p>
<p>I have to agree with the OP. I have been a substitute teacher at the high school level, and the lack of personal responsibility simply floors me. Each spring, I can’t help but wonder how on earth some of these kids are going to function as adults … but then I remember … they aren’t. I see mom’s basement in their futures. Frankly, I can’t imagine what these kids are going to be like in a few years. Life isn’t fair, you know. The vast majority of people do not make 6 figure incomes when they graduate (or even many years afterward). Work can be boring … or unsatisfying (imagine that!). Spouses and children disappoint. Money doesn’t grow on trees. Etc. If we fail to prepare our children for the fact that life s*cks sometimes, they sure are going to be unhappy campers.</p>
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<p>Well said. All kids need to learn this. Wish I had a dollar (or maybe even a nickel) for every time I said, “Life’s not fair. Sometimes you have to do things you don’t like or want to do—that’s life”.</p>
<p>The two rules I grew up with and passed onto my son are; pay your own way and always clean up your mess. I think they both apply to schoolwork. I know parents who coddle believing that their kid just doesn’t understand what’s “around the corner” and will loose opportunities if they don’t intervene on the kid’s behalf. Well what happens when that safety net disappears? I see too many adult children living at home with parents after college with no clue how to make it on their own.</p>
<p>I don’t care if parents overflate their children; that is parents for ya.</p>
<p>But I do think parents ought to often step back in ‘unfair situations’. If your child screws up, something unfair happens, some test doesn’t reflect your child, and its NOT LIKE YOUR child, it IS NOT GOING TO MATTER! In the big scheme of things your ‘true’ child shows up most of the time, despite the unfairness/noise/craziness/mistakes of the real world. </p>
<p>I’m not talking about kids with learning disabilities. Many children with LD, who are also gifted, do need special accomodations. But I’m addressing the one-offs where parents freak out about it, and frankly, it doesn’t make sense because it simply is a ‘one off’. best for you and your kids to learn life sucks some times but put the odd bad situation into perspective- very unlikely its going to impact their life in anyway way.</p>
<p>Isn’t there a difference between a kid that is just somewhat immature and a kid that blames everyone else? Families I know in these cases aren’t blaming anyone but the kid or often themselves as parents. They may be frustrated with the school to some extent for not reaching out to the kid, but usally the most frustration the parent has is with their child. A kid that is simply not doing all homework and thus not achieving to his or her potential does not necessarily equal a child that lacks personal responsibilty appropriate to their maturity. For some kids, the homework is not needed to learn the material. </p>
<p>It is ridiculous to assume that every kid that doesn’t hand in homework on time at 17 is going to end up as a failure. Talk to some highly successful adults or parents of 20-something kids and you will find many that were not great in high school. There is a big difference between such a kid and a kid that is getting into trouble but has mom and dad bail him out every time. </p>
<p>School should be fair in the sense that grades should be awarded based on specific criteria. If students choose not to meet the criteria, their grades will suffer. In reality, however, some teachers place more emphasis on form than substance. Given the state of education in this country, especially for gifted kids, maybe not every child that resists homework is a lazy brat, but may be pointing out flaws in the “one size fits all” educational model in most US schools.</p>
<p>It’s a cop out to blame the teachers and the school because a kid refuses to due his homework and assignments because he/she feels they are irrelevant or boring or whatever adjective they use to describe the assignment. This is not a maturity issue. It’s about kids choosing to not do their job. A student’s job is to complete assignments, prepare for class, participate in class, study for exams, and show up to class. If they choose to not do assignments, it’s their fault. It’s not the fault of the class. It’s not the fault of the teacher. It’s not the fault of ADD. It’s because the student has chosen to not do the work for whatever reason. The assignments and homework are expected of him yet he chooses not to do it. Stop making excuses and see it for what it really is.
No one is saying that the kid who doesn’t do homework at 17 is destined to become a failure. However, his actions at 17 will set the path towards his future. His actions may mean community college working up to a four year university. His actions may mean that he doesn’t get to go to the college of his choice in the beginning. It’s important to emphasize, his actions–his path–his future.</p>
<p>That’s why, with rare exception, our son does 5-6 hours of homework each night. He would rather cut off a limb than not complete the work…</p>
<p>And that’s why he is absolutely not an underachiever. Although his grades may not reflect the work that he puts in, they do reflect the quality of the work. He deserves many praises and pats on the back for putting in the hard work and “doing his job”.<br>
You may disagree with judging kids based on their grades but that is the way the majority of college admissions works. Admission’s Offices do consider the whole applicant but a strong ACT test score should be backed up with a strong GPA, rigorous course load, good EC’s, strong teacher recommendations, and essays. They will not base an acceptance on an ACT test score alone. It needs to be a complete package.</p>
<p>I think part of the discussion here is, how does a parent expect their child to get accepted into a college if the transcript does not look somewhat stellar. </p>
<p>With the statistic being that there will be the most amount of high school seniors applying to colleges next year due to the baby boomers children becoming college age, the competition is HUGE!</p>
<p>With the way the application process is now with a huge amount being done online and the transcripts and letters of rec being sent electronically, it is pretty difficult for a parent to advocate for their childs admission.</p>
<p>I keep hearing on this forum that the gpa isn’t everything in the decision making process and I believe that there is some truth to that. It does seem however, that a student has to have everything else looking pretty competetive ie. SAT/ACT scores, EC’s, leadership,etc. and I am hard pressed to see a student who is “bored” and doesn’t turn in homework to be very motivated for the rest of the components. It does send a bit of a “red flag” up and most colleges don’t do personal interviews anymore due to the amount of applications that they get, so how does one explain themselves out of a bad gpa?</p>
<p>I know of a few colleges that accept students with a 3.0, but most are looking for far better than that and you can’t get that not turning in homework!</p>
<p>I have visited 9 colleges this year, some colleges, some universities, some large, some small, no Ivies and I am yet to find one that is ready to accept a student who does not look like they will be an asset to their institution. The ones that I visited with my son were not really interested in any parents who seemed to be doing all the talking for their kid, and I was very surprised that they no longer give preference to a student who is a “Legacy”. They basically said, we are not looking to admit Dad or Grandpa, we are looking at what type of student YOU are going to be at our institution.</p>
<p>Has anyone else here had a different experience?</p>
<p>nysmile…we must think alike :)</p>
<p>That’s not a bad thing. LOL.</p>
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<p>I don’t disagree with it. They have to have some objective indicators of a student. All I’m saying is I hope that some of the other numbers they look at are enough to offset the low GPA for my son. If he doesn’t get in I’ll understand completely and we will move on to the safeties.</p>
<p>What you need to do is look at the incoming freshman profile for the colleges that you’re son is interested in attending. It can be very enlightening.</p>
<p>I don’t leave many stones unturned. The problem with highly selective institutions is there is no rhyme or reason sometimes. It’s a crapshoot.</p>
<p>pmrlcomm…have you used the College Board academic tracker? </p>
<p>I think it is extremely helpful as you can plug in all of your sons courses taken and taking and his GPA and SAT/ACT scores. You can then pull over colleges one by one and click on “how do I stack up” and it will merge his stats into the averages for that school. You can also click on the line that tells how important each component is for that particular school which will tell you how heavily they weight the GPA.</p>
<p>Yup. I like the collegeboard sight quite a bit. I have used the stacking up feature on every college I’ve pulled up. Usually his standardized tests are right in line or above the norm and his GPA and class rank (small class, 100 or so kids so it’s tough to be top 10%) are what is behind the curve. It is a great tool. I may have missed the part about how heavily they weight the components though. I’ll check that out. Thanks!</p>
<p>pmri…If he’s doing 5 to 6 hours of work and still not earning a high GPA in high school, why would you want to send him to a highly selective and extremely difficult college? The pressure may be too much. The workload may be too much. The reading alone is much more than what he’s experiencing now. I’m not saying that he isn’t capable but is it the right environment for a student who is doing 5 to 6 hours of high school work per night with less than stellar grades? Is it fair to place him in that situation?
Will it be too much pressure? This is something to consider when finding a good fit for him. You know him best and I’m sure you will steer him towards a good fit. I do hope you consider the workload at the highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>I agree with nysmile. Pmrlcomm, your S obviously has a great work ethic, and this will serve him extremely well in life. I think you would be wise in trying to find a school that fits him (there are many excellent schools, especially smaller schools, that might work well for him). Personally, I think a school that is known for helping kids get co-op jobs would be great. Once an employer sees your son’s work ethic, everything may begin to look even brighter for him.</p>