Is Dartmouth is a sub-standard school?

[slipper1234]

<p>If you want to go back to your home country there is no question that the large (particularly science oriented) institutions hold the day (example Cal-Berk) in terms of reputation. BUT if you want to stay in the US a place like Dartmouth is the cream of the crop when it comes to getting elite US jobs.</p>

[ammarsfound]

<p>welllll theres also the fact that most internationals are forced to go back home once their visa expires :-/ So they’re probably going to work in their own country anyway.</p>

<p>On the other hand, whenever my dads looking to hire someone for his company, he generally prefers people who attended the same university he did. Its the same bias which helps dartmouth students get jobs in wallstreet, a strong alumni base. Obviously, in Iraq, some dude who went to the top uni in iraq will prefer another graduate of the same university. And, again obviously, the alumni base of even syph won’t be as strong in iraq as that of the top iraqi university. My dads old boss used to hire tonnes of people from NED (a local college he went to) over people with degrees from berkeley (my dad being one of them). You can argue that employers will be objective in choosing the right person for the job but, outside of (maybe) the west, they REALLY aren’t.</p>

[cameliasinensis]

<p>^That actually terrifies me. After I graduate from Dartmouth, I’ll face the possibility of being forced to leave after having spent ten years in the United States (compared to four in Sweden: 1989-1990 and 1998-2001). If I can’t get a visa, I don’t have a “home” to go back to. It’s pretty daunting.</p>

[ammarsfound]

<p>^ You could just get a job, and get your boss to sponsor you. Thats what most people i know plan on doing. </p>

<p>Though i know what you mean. Pakistans been a home to me for 17 years. Now all the sudden, we’re moving to the states :-S but i guess its different since all my friends are going away too.</p>

[slipper1234]

<p>That’s why alot of internationals tend to take the “corporate” jobs. It gets them into top firms that will sponsor them right out of college. I have a friend who now has a green card and quit corporate life altogether.</p>

[ammarsfound]

<p>Well said Ammarsfound. Though we Dukies aren’t that bad really. </p>

<p>oh no. The people arent ‘bad’ at all. They’re just not the type i could see myself getting along with (relative to dartmouth people of course).</p>

[OldPerson]

<p>I believe the original post asked if Dartmouth was sub-standard. I would like to know what is the STANDARD?</p>

[Big_Brother_1984]

<p>

I believe the original post asked if Dartmouth was sub-standard. I would like to know what is the STANDARD?

</p>

<p>I believe “sub-standard” meant “crappy” in this context.</p>

<p>But just to be consistent with the THES rankings, I’d say UT Austin is “the standard.”</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@Big Brother 1984

I didn’t say that you talked ill about SNU, just that you degraded it as a school overall. You were trying to justify its place on the THES, so you in effect, degraded Seoul National.</p>

<p>Boy, how are the Koreans going to feel about that?</p>

<p>Let me tell you something spencer. I’ve been pretty astute about my word choices, and it’s been working. I’ve gotten you all riled up over things you should not be emotional about. Nobody on this thread (except maybe joshua) thinks that you have anything productive to say. To us, you’re an irrational, emotionally biased fool, who needs to admit that he’s wrong, and move on. Of course, we would’ve never thought that of you if you knew how to read.

You are talking rubbish do you know that? Yes I know that SNU is a highly coveted school in Korea, and that it lands you flabulous jobs in Korea, good connections, etc etc… But does SNU serve you well in most places around the world as well as Cambridge does? Answer my question. Does SNU serve you as well as Todai does in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Shanghai? Answer my question. </p>

<p>Don’t try to push through your argument forcefully Big Brother 1984. Facts are facts and they cannot be denied. Perhaps you should change your name to Big Bully 1984, because you look like one. </p>

<p>Who do you think you are? Some sort of genius? Wow! You are representing the view points of everyone on CC, so who are you? Jesus Christ? I am irrational and biased? How many times have I cited external sources during the whole debate? How many times have you ever cited (if you have even cited at all) except all your so-called evidence from your father’s plumber’s sister’s friend?</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@Big Brother 1984

Uh…the last time I checked, Todai had a high market value that was mostly constrained to Japan. So how does that make it SO different from SNU?</p>

<p>That’s not the point here. The point is, I find SNU’s ranking extremely dubious.</p>

<p>And let’s be honest here. NUS isn’t exactly the hottest commodity in the world. D.T. said so himself - but you would expect the reverse since he’s from Singapore. Now that says a lot when NUS’s own constituency doesn’t think too highly of it, does it?</p>

<p>And face it, SNU students tend to be on average, smarter than the average NUS student. Heck, I think there’s little dispute that the average SNU student is smarter and more successful than the average University of Toronto student. But that’s not what the THES would have you thinking.

No, Todai serves you well within North-East Asia, i.e., places like Taiwan, Shanghai and Hong Kong, not just within Japan itself. A degree from SNU, however, is pretty restricted within South Korea.</p>

<p>There are many NUS people who are working in Hong Kong now. Please go and check NUS career website. Check the business school website also. Many Biz students are doing internship in Hong Kong. Now and again, facts prevail. There are also NUS grads who are being sent to work in Shanghai, because they are fluent in Mandarin, unlike SNU ones.</p>

<p>A degree from Todai serve you well within North-East Asia. A degree from NUS serve you well within South-East Asia and China. A degree form SNU, however, only serve you well within South Korea. Just admit it Big Brother 1984, the very moment you mentioned SNU your argument is weaken. Just give it up. </p>

<p>Oh, so the average NUS student is not as bright as the average SNU one. Well I have no prove on this. But since so much of your measurement on the quality of a university is based on job opportunities, then is it right to say that, since a NUS degree serves you well within South-East Asia and China, whereas a SNU one only serves you well within South-Korea, NUS wins hands down?</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@Big Brother 1984

Oh quit it. You will never be that witty, so stop copying my statements. Let’s be honest here, you probably never stepped a metre outside of Singapore. Otherwise, there’s no way you would’ve started this thread, and there’s no way you would’ve degraded SNU like you did.

Haha… I definitely have more chops on my passport than you do Big Brother 1984! Your arrogance reaches the stratosphere!</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@ammarsfound

But I digress. The point is why would you want pay 50 grand to go to a school that treats you like second class students? Slipper already elaborated on what dartmouth has to offer. And the term LAC means practically nothing. Any university you go to for undergrad will teach the same thing and give you no more opportunities than an LAC would. The difference is that universities will also have grad students to worry about, so you’ll end up sharing (and in most cases forfeiting) certain facilities with/to grad students. The best example of this would be the MRI machine at dartmouth, the ONLY one in the US that is there for use by undergrad neuroscience majors. At no other college are undergrads allowed (almost) exclusive use of an MRI machine, especially not at a university where the professors fear irresponsible undergrads might end up breaking a precious tool used by precious grad students :-/

Yes I believe that Dartmouth is providing a great experience to the undergrads, unlike most other research-intensive universities that treat the UGs like second-class citizens. </p>

<p>But I also believe that doing so would make it hard for the university to climb international league tables. Look at Caltech, it is such a small school but it manages to do so well. I would say that one of the reason is because it is mainly a PG school that focuses on hard-science research. This is their success formula.</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@Big Brother 1984

Checkmate. I want you to admit it right now spencer. You came into this thread with your mind already made up. You’re not looking for opinions, you’re just trying to convince other people about your biased views on Dartmouth.

Checkmate. I provided this link <a href=“http://www.google.com/trends?q=Dartmouth+College%2C+Harvard+University%2C+Duke+University%2C+Cambridge+University%2C+Cornell+University&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0[/url]”>http://www.google.com/trends?q=Dartmouth+College%2C+Harvard+University%2C+Duke+University%2C+Cambridge+University%2C+Cornell+University&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0&lt;/a&gt; from Google treads and Dartmouth indeed lag behind other schools like Harvard, Duke, Cambridge and Cornell. Not that I have made up my mind but I just found new evidence that Dartmouth is sub-standard, while you fail to show up any real good citations except for hearsay that Dartmouth is good. </p>

<p>Don’t always try to mislead the audience. God forbids.</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>
[quotethe “prestige” factor is important for internationals because it helps them to get a job when they return to their home countries after graduation. Therefore, it is quite important that people back home have heard of the university you attended. Back home, employers are more likely to choose someone who attended brand-name schools like Oxbridge, or HYPMS, over someone who went to Dartmouth. Heck, I’d say you’d have a hard time finding work in your home country if you attended a school in the states that no one has heard of. so prestige is important…
[/quote]

To be true, even within the US, more people recognize HYPMS than Dartmouth. Outside the US, more people acknowledge HYPS + Oxbridge than Dartmouth.</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@Big Brother 1984

I agree that prestige is an extraordinarily good market value indicator. However, I’d probably have a very difficult time finding great work back at home with pretty much a degree from any college in the United States except Harvard. Let’s be honest here. To most people, it’s Harvard and everything else. Most people with hiring power probably would never hear of Oxbridge or YPMS.

LOL! Let’s be honest here, you are very ignorant of the situation in Asia.</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@Big Brother 1984

@albert87

It is more correct to say that FEW people have never heard of Oxbridge and YPSM. In general, these are all well-known schools everywhere.

Wrong. It is more correct to say that MOST people have never heard of Oxbridge and YPSM. Most people are very grassroots by nature - they’ll go to their local state university. But that’s not a problem - you can still get a pretty darn good job if you play your cards right. This is America, after all.

Wrong. Big Brother you are wrong. Most people have heard of Oxbridge and HYPSM. Just that not everyone can secure the necessary funding or have the academic credentials to attend Oxbridge and HYPSM.</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@joshua007

Big Brother 1984 is a communist.

I guess that just sums it all up. Sweet!</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@ammarsfound

If you plan on working in your country of origin, its generally a better idea just to go to the flagship uni of said country. I think most domestic employers are pretty ignorant about international universities, so chances are they probably wouldn’t be too impressed even if you told them you went to caltech or something. This has happened to my dad quite a few times. He went to stanford for his PhD, came back to karachi, and his interviewer looked through his resume and went ,'Wow, you went to NED (a local engineering college dad went to for his Bachelors). Impressive". Not a word was spoken about stanford.

Yes you are pretty correct. In my country, NUS would always land you a safe and good job. But if you are aiming for a top-notch job, a degree from Oxbridge would be prefect. Oxbridge is extremely highly respected here. Many of our ministers, including our PM, have Oxbridge degrees. Many others have Imperial/LSE degrees.</p>

[spencer11111]

<p>

@aw5k

@Big Brother 1984

Most people with hiring power probably would never hear of Oxbridge or YPMS."

I’m sorry to disagree, but this is completely false. Your experience might be different, but (1) I highly doubt that the people at your father’s work really haven’t heard of Oxbridge and Princeton, Stanford, etc., and (2) I doubt even more that most Canadians haven’t heard of these colleges. What is more, I KNOW that most people (at least in my country, Germany) have heard of Oxbridge and Yale, Princeton, Stanford. I’m doing a year of social service, and even people who are not that bright or well-educated have heard of Cambridge, for example.

Don’t need to correct Big Brother 1984. It is game-over for him. He has been talking nonsense.</p>

[Big_Brother_1984]

<p>spencer, the thread became peaceful for a while when we all thought you had left.</p>

<p>Fine. I’ll tell you what you want to hear - since that’s what this whole thread’s been about anyway. SNU deserves its 63rd ranking on the THES. Dartmouth is worse than UT Austin. Infact, Dartmouth is a crappy school.</p>

<p>Does that satisfy you? Is that what it’ll take to make you shut the hell up and leave?</p>

<p>To be truthful spencer, I could easily refute all those posts you just spammed us with. But there’s no point. Like I said, this thread should’ve ended a long time ago. </p>

<p>I want good discussions on CC. But let’s face it, this has become me trying to push back your sea of ad hominems, and everyone else trying to keep the peace. I don’t think that’s fair to the other posters.</p>

<p>I’m curious. Why do you continue to post? Is there some psychological urge in you such that you must win? </p>

<p>OK fine spencer. I give up. Is that what you want to hear?</p>