Norwegian freestyle dining did it for me for cruise. I was happy knowing jacket and formal wears were not required, but seeing people in t-shirts and flip flops in the dining room was a bit much for me.
You should see what people wear to church where I live! Talk about a lack of respect…
This is a fast moving thread and I am a day behind, but I wanted to respond to the person who insisted that “cute flats” are somehow more appropriate than “sneakers,” for example.
That’s a perfect example about how this is all about personal preferences and about trying to impose your own preferences on other people.
“Sneakers” – including clodhopping white sneakers – happen to be very in style right now, way more so than the “cute flats” you are talking about. Look at a site like http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-ludlow-new-york-3/ with street photos of fashionable people all over the world. Very few are wearing “cute flats” of the sort you mean; many are wearing sneakers of the sort you don’t like. Yet they are totally cool and stylish and appropriate.
Few more women on trend in sneakers (of course in summer sandals will be worn more than sneakers)
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-rue-de-temple-paris/
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-ave-winston-churchill-paris-3/
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-tenth-ave-new-york-6/
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-passatge-mercader-barcelona/
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-the-medina-marrakech/
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-just-off-bedford-street-brooklyn/
Don’t diss my cute flats.
None of the those gals looks over 30. And each appears stylish for both her city and her status as a youngish woman.
Don’t assume too much of their choice in appearance is just thrown on. Their looks not only appear well considered, but there may even have been a stylist involved. The lighting, eg, appears professional.
So different than the protests that, “I wear what I want to, no matter what.” And, somehow packing only Nike shorts for a college trip to a major city.
No, they are fine, but it just irritates me when someone makes a pronouncement like “sneakers are inappropriate” especially when they happen to be super fashionable at the moment.
Well, we can always fall back on the wisdom of Letitia Baldrige: “No one can say that you can’t wear [X}. But one can say that you’d look much nicer wearing [Y}.”
If you really don’t care what you look like, then that’s fine, but don’t get upset when people judge.
Some young people do need to learn how to dress in an appropriate and flattering manner. That’s fine. They will figure it out when they need to. Those whose parents can say, “Um, don’t wear that, sweetheart” have an advantage.
We went to the Vienna Philharmonic in June two years ago. (And a performance in Salzburg and a performance of Mozart’s Requiem in a cathedral in Vienna.) H and S brought jacket and tie specifically for that. Defintiely necessary. No one visible in hoodies or less casual attire.
I think that a young woman who packs nothing but running shorts and T shirts for a trip that involves meeting with professors, dining out, etc, is, if not a boor, extremely foolish. I strongly doubt that that is what she would wear on a date at home. Her parents should have stepped in.
Only for those who go out of their way to feel disrespected or offended by other people not dressing the way that they would like them to dress. Lots of diners in restaurants do not care what other diners are wearing, if they even notice the other diners (other than the general impression of how full the restaurant is). The same applies to walking down the street or riding the bus, train, or airplane.
Why would you go to buy a pair of jeans for an impromptu get-together that, I’m guessing, was designed to me a nice respite? In 18 year old girl can take all day or longer to find a suitable pair of jeans. She’d be better of staying at the hotel and ordering in if it came to that. She did not plan to be dining out ahead of time if I’m reading the opening post right. The jeans were not “needed” - the party went along just fine it seems.
p.s. They were not heading to a white table cloth Thai place so that isn’t applicable here. Also, I doubt her shorts were “grimy”. She was in standard college girl attire.
All I am am going to say is this. Calling this woman boorish, etc. says more about the people that do it.
My best friend from high school was probably the most cultured person I ever met - most well-read probably of most people I know to this day; intelligent, loves theater, music, foreign languages (as in truly passionate about these things), but super down-to-earth as well . Just an awesome all around person. All she wore were cotton t-shirts (not the ‘flattering’ kind) , and you know what, in my book, that matters not at all. If I were an employer, I would hire her in a heartbeat.
My first boyfriend in college lived in sweats. He is an awesome guy, also super smart. We are still friends. I couldn’t care less what he wore when we went out, even though I dressed up a lot back then.
These people, if nothing else, showed me beyond any doubt that clothes don’t matter. People can judge all they want. Ultimately, they are the ones missing out - on great friends, great relationships, great employees, great human beings.
I think it’s important that we teach our kids that there are different levels of formality and help them learn when each is appropriate. People may not say anything, but they do notice and there are times when it can be important.
Each family has its own customs, so in less formal situations it can be tough to get different families on the same page. Our family has a general standard (although we make allowances for the very old, the very young, and those who may be struggling financially), but we wouldn’t impose it on others. I wouldn’t wear shorts to dinner, but if a friend did I wouldn’t care unless we’d be denied service.
I like Hunt’s suggestion but I’d tweak it just a tad. Instead of just suggesting a polo shirt, I think you’d get better results if you mention the shoes. If you suggest wingtip shoes to a man, he won’t show up in shorts.
If your friend is a freaking genius at the specific job requirements, ACS, some of them do get away with “come as you are.” But that’s rare. Most companies not only don’t hire based on general intelligence and side interests, but hold to their own general standards and it’s not optional to, eg, deal with clients in your favorite comfies. If “I’ll do what I want” goes too far, what’s next?
Funny thing about all this: conforming plays a role in college admissions, too. They don’t need a bunch of renegades. Frankly, same goes for high tech if you dig behind the superficial view. Gotta get the work one, gotta be efficient, gotta get along. Only a few outliers succeed without that. It’s life.
The point is the girl took casual, comfortable clothes to her orientation which was likely more focused on ice breaker games and dining hall options than “meeting with professors” and other heavy duty academic activities. She was not inappropriate in any way for her occasion or for the plane ride. The OP was told what she had to wear and made an adjustment to the dinner destination - no harm, no foul it would seem to me. It seems that the rudeness would be on the part of the hosts (not the OP in this case) if they held the expectation that an invited guest would make a special shopping trip to accommodate their dining whims for an impromptu invitation.
I do agree that it’s nice to be dressed at a level appropriate to the occasion most of the time. I just don’t agree that her wardrobe was inappropriate for the purposes of airline travel or a summer orientation.
She was not inappropriate (apparently; we don’t really know) for the college events. OP went to Plan B.
We don’t even know if she’s a bright young thing whose specific appearance is secondary, or a mumbler, carried herself well or missed the table manners lesson (lots of kids argue that doesn’t matter, either.) I think OP was questioning the mindset. Everyone survived.
You know my daughter apparently, or someone a lot like her. Loose, usually tired looking tee shirts, blue jeans, occasionally a pair of her old soccer shorts with compression shorts underneath, never any makeup or jewelry. She does not own anything remotely resembling cute flats. Raising her here in the PNW helped the clothes budget.
I’m guessing the professors and such were fine with the way the young woman dressed. The sorority uniform around here does include shorts with generous cheek exposure, hilly campus and all.
" How would you even know that someone at another table was “waving around” a diamond? "
Because the family was seating next to us and the hubbub coming from the table caught my attention. Her family members were FILMING her waving her hand around-not taking photos, FILMING it. It was the size of the marbles kids play with. HUGE, And they did this two separate times, much to-do about it. Now, I suppose it could have been a fake, but I doubt anyone would go to that much trouble over a CZ.
Meanwhile, the other tables were quietly chatting and eating. It was quite a contrast.
i was thinking cure flats for my 50 yo self. I agree certain sneakers are the thing among the college age set.
“These people, if nothing else, showed me beyond any doubt that clothes don’t matter. People can judge all they want. Ultimately, they are the ones missing out - on great friends, great relationships, great employees, great human beings.”
No one judged this girl’s character, just her judgment in packing only gym shorts. That’s all. No one has suggested that they needed smelling salts over this whole thing or that she wasn’t a delightful young lady. This just falls under “stuff we would teach our kids” - for something like this, bring a pair of jeans because a) you never know if the weather or surroundings will be cold and b) that way you can go more places. That’s all. So enough with the faux moralizing that we are all judging her for not looking as though she stepped out of the pages of Vogue.