<p>^really? that never occurred to me.</p>
<p>My guess is that what really made these kids uncomfortable, was being asked a personal question in front of the class, irrespective of what it was, and I can understand the feeling of being pressured to disclosed something about one’s self in front of other people whom you might not ever have a relationship with that warrants that type of disclosure.</p>
<p>The interesting thing to me is trying to understand why specifically, disclosing where one is from is so personal or private, that having to state it publicly would make anyone uncomfortable.</p>
<p>Kids, any kids, get uncomfortable a lot.</p>
<p>Sweetcupcake - and your choice of username is quite spectacular - it is very hard to know what a stranger’s intentions are in a situation like that. He could have been a insensitive, racist jerk. But he could have been a nut job, he could have been a name enthusiast, he could have been hinting for you to ask him about himself or he could have been killing time. You seem like a lovely person and I wonder why you didn’t ask him after class. Then you could have either felt better because the reason was innocuous, or you could have explained your discomfort. If asking about names is that problematic, it would be kind to assume he doesn’t know better and tell him.</p>
<p>Good answer, Zoosermom.</p>
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<p>Bay,</p>
<p>What’s interesting is that the visible minorities most upset by this line of questioning IME tend to be second generation or later Americans who mostly come from your state or on the West Coast. It’s especially a sore point among Hispanics with ties to California predating the US-Mexican Wars and Asian-Americans like my cousin-in-law’s family. There’s also a lot of activism/studies done mostly by California/West Coast universities and it’s alums along those lines. </p>
<p>General consensus I’ve heard about most teacher training programs within the last 2 decades or even many diversity training in the workplace is the question shouldn’t be brought up by supervisors/those with greater authority in workplaces/classrooms in relation to their reports/students unless it has direct bearing on their work/curriculum covered. </p>
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<p>Zoosermom,</p>
<p>That’s an odd reading of the situation and is IMO an unfair burden to place on someone who is on the lower end of the power equation in this situation, the OP and other students. Especially considering they’re still high school students. </p>
<p>Moreover, as the teacher…even a sub…it is incumbent upon him to communicate in a clear enough manner to avoid ambiguities which could lead to such misunderstandings in the first place. </p>
<p>He’s the teacher who’s presumably has had professional teacher training and is older. Thus, the onus in this situation is at best, mostly if not completely on his shoulders. Especially considering he’s ultimately responsible for what went on in the classroom that day and neither he…nor anyone else should try dumping any of that responsibility on the shoulders of the OP and other singled out classmates.</p>
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<p>It’s not the OP’s or any other singled out classmates’ job to “educate” others on such issues…especially someone whose job it is to educate others. </p>
<p>The OP’s and other classmates are well within their rights to report it to the regular teacher and/or higher admins and it’s their job to properly counsel that sub on his at best, inappropriate behavior.</p>
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<p>How dismissive and patronizing of OP’s legitimate concerns.</p>
<p>Cobrat, I am honored that you perceived my reaction as odd. I really hope Sybbie will weigh in on teacher training and diversity. I enjoy hearing from experts.</p>
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<p>If my friend pulled the same stunt as a regular or substitute instructor at the community college he teaches, he’d be out of a job not only for violating the college’s rules on diversity and respecting student rights, but also for wasting their time as tuition-paying students/taxpayers. </p>
<p>And that’s a lot more lenient than what would have happened had this been done by an instructor/substitute at my private LAC or similar colleges…</p>
<p>Bay, as I’ve said before, I don’t think the teacher was a racist. I think he was probably genuinely curious. But there is a difference between what someone says and the way it is received. If sweetcupcake were attributing deliberate malice to his comments, I would agree that it was a stretch. To say that it made her uncomfortable to be, with a few other students with foreign-sounding names, singled out and, apparently, assumed to be non-native students is reasonable. </p>
<p>Sure, there are situations where people get offended for the sake of being offended, and I don’t think someone is responsible for other people’s apparently willful misreading of innocuous statements. But in this case, I think the question is one that has the foreseeable effect of making a student feel like an outsider, even if that wasn’t - as it almost certainly wasn’t - the teacher’s intention.</p>
<p>I honestly can’t see how it wouldn’t have been at the very least awkward if I had, on the first day of class, paused to ask my two students with ethnic names where they were from. Why on Earth would I have done that? What would I have been achieving? Btw, judging by their respective writing abilities, I suspect that both have, at the very least, grown up in the US, wherever they or their parent were born.</p>
<p>There was no stunt cobrat.</p>
<p>Apprenticeprof, I agree with most of what you say, with just one caveat. You can’t overstate the fact that it was a sub who was probably just trying to have anything to say and wasn’t necessarily ever expecting to see these kids again to get to know them. I do agree it was awkward, but if he had been asked why he was curious, the answer could have put the awkwardness to rest.</p>
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<p>If this is true, I’m not sure why it is “interesting.” I’d call it quite predictable considering the number one and number two top countries/regions from whence immigrants have currently been arriving are Mexico/Americas and China/Asia. And guess which state is the top destination?</p>
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<p>Unfortunately for all of us, most teachers are not as smart as you are. We need to cut them some slack for not always thinking things through before speaking.</p>
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<p>This isn’t about being smart or not. This is about whether they’re meeting the bare minimums of professional behavior…especially for those over the age of 16. </p>
<p>Not thinking things through before speaking in a classroom/workplace setting is something I’d expect from an immature person below the age of 16 in an after-school/weekend job. </p>
<p>It’s not something I’d expect from someone who’s a supposed adult. Especially someone trained to be an educator. I don’t know about you, but I don’t feel it’s asking too much for teachers…whether sub or not to be able to function with far greater maturity than an immature 16 or younger at an afterschool/weekend job. </p>
<p>Several of my better public junior high and high school teachers I’ve had would also feel disgusted at your implied lowered behavioral/intellectual expectations for those who are members of their profession. </p>
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<p>True. However, I’ve also heard and noticed that to many Californians/West Coast visible minorities that asking about “Where are you REALLY from” isn’t regarded as a question one asks in polite company…especially with strangers or in front of others in a public setting. It seems to be a much more personal/touchy question best asked only among closer friends and in private one-on-one or if one’s develops enough of a rapport to become a member of a close-knit social group.</p>
<p>cobrat,</p>
<p>Do you seriously think that very many people ask Asians and Hispanics, “where are you REALLY from?” I’ve have never, ever heard that question asked in real life. As someone upthread posted, the ethnic roots of most people are intuitively obvious. Most people don’t need to ask, so they don’t.</p>
<p>Also, I do respect the majority of teachers, but I also appreciate the fact that they are human and fallible, and I know from experience that sometimes ones’ students are brilliant; more brilliant than their teachers or parents, so those students need to cut some slack in the direction of others who slip up without malice aforethought.</p>
<p>.“Power equation” is one of those neatly crafted expressions that brings the visual of intimidated students. I am sure there are some among friends and family of posters who have some tale to tell about being fearful. But is this accurate in this case? Someone remind me if OP suggested the students were so. Or is it just an effective phrase to repeat in a thread already heavy with suggestions there was unacceptable purpose behind all this? it is a neat point to make, implies some authority- and I believe several used it. But perhaps a tad strategic, here.</p>
<p>Btw, the feelings of second gen kids about identity have been studied in soc/anthro for a long, long time.</p>
<p>And as ever, watch out for anecdotes posing as universals. t.y.</p>
<p>“Do you seriously think that very many people ask Asians and Hispanics, “where are you REALLY from?””</p>
<p>How about THIS then: my biracial D is asked on a REGULAR basis who her parents REALLY are. People cannot seem to fathom that she is biracial, half white and half black, that her parents are married to each other, and that she is their biological child.</p>
<p>She has been asked “What are you?” or “Where are you from?” or “How old were you when you were adopted?” or “Who is your REAL dad (or mom)?” It’s also been assumed that I am a single parent who was impregnated and than left by her biological father.</p>
<p>This happens ALL.THE.TIME. Kids ask. Adults ask. Teachers have asked. These are not passingly curious questions. They are not conversation starters, and they are not harmless. And they were not asked of my two older, blond, blue-eyed kids, EVER. Even after my ex left and I was a single parent. It was always assumed that I was their biological parent, even though I have dark hair and eyes and am quite short while they are tall, blond and blue-eyed.</p>
<p>THAT is the problem here. Kids with seemingly “American” names, or at least commonly heard ethnic names, were NOT ASKED by the sub. Just kids with ethnic names who also happened to be non-white. No matter what the sub intended, he put some students on the spot and left them feeling defensive. That should not have happened. What only a few on here have caught onto is that this likely WASN’T the first time this sort of thing had come up for any of the kids. It was likely the latest in a long line of clueless people asking questions about who they are, when it JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN to the white kids.</p>
<p>OP-I applaud you for remaining mature and calmly responding to some of these posts, even as you have been accused of being oversensitive and/or not bothering to keep up on your own ancestral country’s history. I get it. I hear from my D pretty regularly-pretty much every time she joins a new class, group etc. about some clueless question.
It gets old for her, as do the questions about whether she lives in a ghetto, etc. etc.</p>
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<p>Bay,</p>
<p>Yes, I do considering not only the countless accounts I’ve heard from other Asian-Americans and Hispanics, but also from my own experiences of being asked this countless times. </p>
<p>Have you considered the possibility that the fact you don’t live day and and day out as a visible Hispanic or Asian-American means you may have not experienced or overlooked such questions as they didn’t directly impact you/your life?</p>
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<p>Some bi-racial children of my older cousins have had similar issues growing up. Ironically, the ones with most issues are all based on the West Coast whereas the ones who haven’t had nearly as many issues are based in the NE…albeit an area well-known for progressive leaning residents.</p>
<p>Thanks sseamom, I try. I’d like to thank you and other posters who have been understanding. It’s nice to know that this is an actual problem and not just in my head.</p>
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<p>Please don’t mind those who have been discounting or questioning your account. </p>
<p>Most are ignorant of the realities you and other visible minorities have had to face on a daily basis or overemphasize “good intentions” vs real negative results with those in greater relative positions of power…however well intentioned or applicable/inapplicable it may be.</p>