<p>Cobrat, you are getting so way off. This is about hs, there was no consensus re your above post. Some posters related their high school teaching or subbing experiences, which could be relevant. Take a breath. And, let’s return to OP’s question, OP’s scenario.</p>
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<p>Basically, the thread has boiled down to those who could relate, understand, and sympathize with the discomfiting experience of OP and her classmates and those who seem to believe OP “must be mistaken”, wildly speculating about sub’s “good intentions”, and even oddly believing it’s the OP’s duty to educate her sub. </p>
<p>I tend to fall into the former camp and find the arguments from the latter camp to be wrong at best…and patronizingly insulting to the OP, her singled out classmates, and those who’ve had similar experiences. </p>
<p>I also find it interesting those in the latter camp are putting so much effort into defending the “good intentions” of someone who is in a greater relative position of power not only by virtue of his being a teacher of the class…even a sub, but also because of his being older and presumably more educated. IMO…that’s getting things completely backwards as those in greater positions of power have and should be expected to be held to higher standards of responsibility and everything associated with it…like having good judgment in a given situation like a classroom environment. </p>
<p>Incidentally, folks trying to excuse/absolve responsibility for bad results/outcomes by citing “good intentions” of the one responsible…especially those in positions of greater power/responsibility tend to be a major pet peeve of mine.</p>
<p>So much projecting. You know the same bits the rest of us do and various segments of this group simply disagree. No need to mock. Or put words in other’s mouths, so to say. </p>
<p>Or assume any one person here has some extraordinary authority that they can read this as no other can.</p>
<p>Different cultures and social groups have different rules about mannerly behavior.</p>
<p>I spend time in two very different social groups, one in the rural community where I have lived for only a few years and one in town which includes people I have known well for decades. In neither group is it appropriate to ask someone’s religion, where they went to college (though you may ask what team they root for:)) what a house cost, a child’s SATs. In our rural community, it would usually be appropriate to ask what church someone attends, but I am cautious about that. Sometimes I am entertaining my town friends when my local friends drop by. One of my town friends, urban raised, is very interested in farm economies. He belongs to farm co-ops, and goes on annual farm tours. At my house, he has asked farmers “How much acreage do you have?” This is a very inappropriate question in this context. It does not matter how politely he asks it. It does not matter his intentions are pure. It doesn’t matter if the question embarrasses or shames the farmer or not. The question is just plain out inappropriate. The question is rude. I don’t really know if that makes the questioner rude in this situation. There is no doubt in my mind, though, that the question is rude in that particular situation.</p>
<p>Politely asking a question can be truly inappropriate. imho</p>
<p>For my Georgetown short essay should i write about Interfaith or Tennis?</p>
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<p>This is what I’ve always heard:
In the Northeast: “What does your father do?” (socioeconomic class)
In the South: “Who are you kin to?” (family connections)
In the West: “Where did you come from?” (back east, overseas, etc.)</p>
<p>I recently met one of my daughter’s friends. The first question I asked him, which is what I usually ask anyone I meet, was “Where are you from?” My thinking was, “Raleigh? Charlotte? down East? the Triad area?” I was ready to make a family connection somewhere; maybe he was kin to someone I knew. He answered, in a rather frustrated manner, “I was born in North Carolina.” I later realized why he answered the way he did. He probably interpreted my question as “China? Japan? Korea?” I was just trying to be polite, but it didn’t occur to me that my meaning might be misinterpreted. Next time I should probably rephrase my question. :)</p>
<h1>1 Sweetcupcake</h1>
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<h1>204 Niquii</h1>
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<h1>214 sseamom</h1>
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<h1>251 Lookingforward</h1>
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<p>I think you are right, in a way, that there is otherizing of those who don’t believe the substitute’s questions were inappropriate. If the substitute is reading the board, do you think some of us pointing out we believe his questions to have been inappropriate will make him feel really uncomfortable, that he stands out, that he is under a spotlight, different, vulnerable and embarrassed? Perhaps so. Here is where I see the difference in this particular situation. The substitute created the situation and has to take responsibility for the reaction to his questions. imho</p>
<p>Also, in this particular situation, I think the feelings of the students take precedence over the feelings of the teacher/substitute. Students deserve a safe, comfortable, inclusive workplace. imho</p>
<h1>266 Sweetcupcake and Niquii have definitely made me think about my own behaviors I need to watch carefully. Thanks for posting, you two.</h1>
<h1>262 Cobrat - I like your post.</h1>
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<p>Those of us who have not experienced being singled out because we are different have no right to assume we know how the OP SHOULD feel…we just don’t have the experience ( even if we are “white” people with unusual names.)</p>
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<p>The rest of the planet can try to learn good manners. A “dumb sub” needs to be educated as to the needs of the students in the classroom. Dumb is no excuse for ignoring bad behavior. </p>
<p>There are all sorts of things students learn at school and unfortunately some of them are unpleasant realities about an unfair world. They get enough of that from their peers, they don’t need their teachers to be part of that lesson.</p>
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You have no idea what experiences anyone has had because this thread didn’t discuss every experience that every poster has had in being singled out. The OP also did not give enough detail to indicate that this really was an issue of the sub being inappropriate or of a young person being understandably sensitive. The issue is that some people got carried away with their imaginations, carrying on about lawsuits and other nonsense just to amuse themselves, and the OP’s actual words got lost in the shuffle. It was a small matter of someone saying something that rubbed someone else the wrong way. It wasn’t necessarily inappropriate, it certainly wasn’t actionable and it may or may not have been “dumb” depending on the totality of the circumstances, which the OP might not have even been aware of. And as far as the power imbalance fantasy, in most schools, subs are the most powerless people in the building.</p>
<p>Can’t a substitute teacher send a student to the Principal for possible disciplinary action? In this regard, doesn’t the sub have more power than the student? It is possible that if the student questioned the inappropriateness of the substitute’s question, there could be negative consequences to the sub. That would only be because the sub asked the question in the first place.</p>
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<p>If the student felt singled out, then it was inappropriate. There is not much to argue here. Talking about how the student may be oblivious to the circumstances …I don’t even know how to reply. This is a child at school, not an adult navigating the world. Adults have the responsibility to meet students where they are and to make them feel safe in their classrooms. </p>
<p>Actionable( not in the law suit sense)? Yes it was. The student has the right to tell those in authority how they were made to feel. They also should expect that the sub would be informed of his inappropriate behavior (regardless of his intention) and expect that it wouldn’t happen again.</p>
<p>Lawsuits…why do people always want to go there?</p>
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The student wasn’t singled out. Others were asked questions, as well, and it was never specified how many people were asked questions but it was more than a single student. </p>
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Not feel safe? Are you kidding? Did you read the OP or just the hysteria tossed on it by another poster?</p>
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Yup. Absolutely. But this student CHOSE not to exercise that right.</p>
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I guess cobrat must have been bored.</p>
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In the actual, real world, a sub who catches the attention of administration won’t be asked back and there goes his livelihood. And, again, asking the question was NOT inappropriate in the context of meeting people. The OP was not singled out, and there is no evidence that race was a factor in any way. Young people need to understand that they will not like everything that every person says to them in their lives, that other people won’t like everything they say, either, and it could be a turn of phrase that is bothersome, it could be a tone of voice, it could be someone chewing gum. Growing up involves distinguishing between inappropriateness and personal preference.</p>
<p>I think a teacher asking the question of only a few students, during roll call, in a classroom is always going to be inappropriate. In the context of adults meeting other adults, in a different social setting, it is a different discussion. In my mind they aren’t really comparable situations. However, like Marsian, I am going to be reconsidering how I ask this question in all situations.</p>
<p>It seems to me the question, for some, is whether the student is justified in feeling singled out. And this is where we get into trying to imagine the world through someone else’s eyes and whether we believe their perceptions of the world are as valid as our own. Whether there is a right and wrong way to experience the same events. Or just different ways. And who gets to decide.</p>
<p>adding: in the classroom situation it doesn’t matter if race was a factor. It doesn’t matter at all.</p>
<p>“Singling out” students is a problem in schools, now? Don’t teachers call on students to participate in class anymore, thus, “singling” them out? What, does the class respond to every question the teacher asks in unison now or something? Or only the kids who raise hands get called on, and the slackers get away with never saying anything? Times have changed from my day.</p>
<p>Also, to the poster who implied there are some on this thread who have never been made to feel different or uncomfortable; that would be a rare person, indeed.</p>
<p>I liked Marian’s post, in which I took her to be saying that the Asian boy seemed to <em>assume</em> her question was about his racial heritage, when that was not her intent at all. So which perception of the question is more appropriate? I think the common usage, which would have led an answer of “North Carolina.”</p>
<p>The student can feel however she wants to feel but you cannot expect or require the rest of the world to read her mind. And, requiring people not to ask other people of a certain skin tone or shade where they are from seems just as “othering” or more so than treating them like everyone else. IMHO</p>
<p>My kids have always done very well cozying up to teachers. These are people not robots.</p>
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Just to be clear, the OP didn’t say it was a skin tone based question.</p>
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Not justified in singling out based on the first post. Possibly justified in being offended. Definitely justified in feeling uncomfortable.</p>
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Each person gets to decide how he or she perceives a situation and then choose how to respond. Two things can be true at once. A person can be made uncomfortable by someone else, and it can also be true that neither person was “wrong.”</p>
<p>I know but somewhere in this thread it seemed to switch from a pronunciation issue to a race thing. She mentioned they were the “non-white” kids. I’m guessing he was trying ineptly to talk world politics in a government class.</p>
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<p>I think all students have a reasonable expectation they will be called on in class. Most teachers I know do their best to call on students an equal number of times, during individual classes and during the semester. Being asked “where do YOU come from?” is a much different sort of singling out than being called on in class. imo</p>