<p>Bravo, lookingforward.</p>
<p>Its amazing when a sub can get anything done in a class. At least in HS they are more than glorified babysitters. But, who knows who they will be able to get to cover a class at the last minute. The fact that the sub could follow the lesson plan and stimulate any type of meaningful discussion on history is a bonus.</p>
<p>lookingforward,</p>
<p>What you and others seem to be ignoring, whether deliberate or not, was that the teacher was in charge of that class and therefore had greater relative power in relation to OP and her classmates.</p>
<p>That combined with the manner in which he went about asking such questions and in putting OP on the spot and insulting her to boot meant his behavior was at best unprofessional and inappropriate. </p>
<p>The fact he was in a greater position of power as the teacher in charge that day, much older, and had presumably more education than OP and her classmates further underscores the unprofessional and inappropriateness of his conduct as the sub.</p>
<p>"Cobrat illustrates the problem with assuming our anecdotes yield some universal understanding. "</p>
<p>Cobrat illustrates the problem with making up anecdotes. There is no topic on CC that cobrat isn’t an authority on, because he’s “talked to” someone in that situation and that person gave him the definitive word on the topic, which of course trumps the experience of those who actually know or live that topic. </p>
<p>I could ask what are the attitudes of yak herders in northern Mongolia towards pineapple and cobrat would have a cousin / friend / hs acquaintance who had been on a subway with someone from Mongolia and that person knew all about perceptions of pineapple and told cobrat’s friend while they were on the subway, and the friend told it to cobrat because that’s the kind of thing people talk about, and well, there you have it.</p>
<p>Re: post 442:
Posters are not ignoring that, cobrat. They have heard your opinion. Over and over and over. They just are wishing to discuss something else. Please- let them, and stop beating this dead horse.</p>
<p>You have shared in many, MANY threads, your opinions on bullying, family dysfunction and early autonomy, power dichotomies, social isolation (my term, not yours) at Stuy, Oberlin, your jobs, your friends, roommates, uncles cousins, acquaintances, supervisors, etc etc etc. jobs. We have heard your thoughts on this matter. Maybe people are ignoring it (your word as I don’t agree) because its been beaten to death. Please get unstuck and let this conversation take its natural course.</p>
<p>Something that complicates the issue is that according to the way sweetcupcake recounted the incident, the sub never actually asked about ethnicity. He asked, “Where are YOU from?” For some reason, even though she was born in the US, OP chose to answer with, “ummm…Nigeria.” Which apparently isn’t true. (Sorry if I’ve forgotten some facts; this thread is so long I can’t bear to go back through it).</p>
<p>cobrat,</p>
<p>A suggestion from a regular reader (ie., me): People like me tend to skip or skim over really long posts like you have a tendency to make. Just saying, in case you are wondering why it might seem like some haven’t “heard” you.</p>
<p>We’re all smart on this bus. Way back, alh acknowledged that and somewhat predicted the arguments to come. Let’s remember, this isn’t the World Court. Or a PhD defense. There will be no final vote, no one winner, either on this topic or the always-running undercurrent of who is smarter than whom. Sometimes, backing off gets one further. Taking a breath to reflect. The pauses can sometimes bring us further than the protestations. (A strategic lesson.)</p>
<p>For me, the gain will come if I can better understand how to balance the two sides here.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am opining on this thread because I have had similar experiences as the OP growing up because I was perceived and treated as a visible minority from a few older ignorant teachers and some adult figures growing up because of my physical appearance. Hey, can’t control the fact I was born and am visibly an Asian American. :)</p>
<p>Several other posters on the thread have supported and confirmed OP’s and my experiences with those of their own. </p>
<p>However, I am a bit perturbed to see some of the same rhetoric and denials I’ve seen from people who either are ignorant of those who lived this day-to-day reality or worse yet, don’t want those with such experiences to speak up so they use them as an attempt to try silencing those of us with such experiences by saying things like “You’re too sensitive” and other BS like that.</p>
<p>What’s more ironic, it was relatives from Bay’s “racial paradise of California”* who first highlighted this sensitivity of being asked about “Where are you from/Where are you REALLY from” to me…especially the Japanese-American in-laws who have been living in the US/California almost uninterrupted since the 1890s. </p>
<ul>
<li>Aptly refuted by other Californian posters.</li>
</ul>
<p>Why did you use quotes, cobrat? I didn’t say those words. I expressed my opinion which I in no way ever expected you to agree with. If you believe CA is a racist state, you are certainly entitled to voice that opinion and have.</p>
<p>Opine as much as you like on your OWN experiences. That would be great. </p>
<p>When you try to pretend that “Irish people in America weren’t treated as white even as recently as the 1970’s” because you THINK you heard that from someone, that’s where you fall apart and lose credibility.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why is it ironic that “relatives” pointed something out to you? Your entire WORLD is filled with paying rapt attention to what your relatives say, do, think and feel, and then assuming that the rest of us should care.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If it’s applicable to the thread, yes. Not too different from you discussing your family members and their experiences on other threads…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then there are those here who HAVE experienced this kind of thing and STILL think we could all do with a little less OUTRAGE and a little more conciliation. For the record, I have stated that the sub was insensitive. I don’t, however, believe anyone needs to storm the administration office to demand his firing, there is no cause for a lawsuit, civil disobedience or any other such extremism. And as some have opined as a separate concept from the OP’s situation that EVER asking anyone where they are from is “rude” or a “loaded question,” I still do NOT understand why that is. Sounds like a whole lot of projecting going on.</p>
<p>And cobrat, you have taken lately to stating your opinions as fact and any other dissenting opinion as “BS.” NO. Your opinions are only that.</p>
<p>
The OP said her parents were immigrants. Was the OP born here? If so, bay is correct. The correct response would have been “I am from <<whatever city=”" state=“” she=“” is=“” from=“”>>. Perhaps it might have given the sub a reason to pause.</whatever></p>
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</p>
<p>You’ve probably confused my saying that’s what would have happened if it had happened at my friend’s community college because of their own student rights/diversity policies with my calling for that in this particular case. </p>
<p>My position regarding the sub situation is that:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>OP’s right to feel what the sub did was inappropriate and unprofessional, because it is for anyone who’s taught or known people in the teaching profession.</p></li>
<li><p>She has the right to voice her concerns to her regular teacher and whoever is supervising the sub. </p></li>
<li><p>It’s the regular teacher and/or the sub’s supervisor’s responsibility to counsel the sub, not students like OP and her classmates. </p></li>
<li><p>OP and her classmates also have the right to do the same with the sub if they are so inclined. However, I disagree with ZM that she should considering that may not be wise due to possibilities of retaliation or attempts to discredit OP/classmates. It also goes against procedures in some school districts/employers put into place in order to provide some safeguards for the students/employees if the teacher/supervisor is the individual with whom they’re having serious issues with.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>No, cobrat, it’s VERY different. Because I (and the rest of us on here) don’t recount stories of my HS classmates, my HS classmates’ parents, my HS principal, my college classmates, my college classmates’ roommates, my supervisors, my college classmates’ friends’ supervisors, my acquaintances, relatives, and don’t forget the endless cousins. In fact, I only have 2 cousins, who I haven’t seen in years and wouldn’t recognize if I tripped over them in the street. So there you have it!</p>
<p>“A few months ago I called a local school psych about a boy with Hispanic surname. She went on and on about him and his family. A week later she called back to say she was talking about the wrong boy.
How is this example supposed to illustrate a racial bias? Not that there is even a Mexican race to begin with.”</p>
<p>It was my impression that this psychologist lumped boys with similar surnames together. I use the term “Mexican” intentionally, because students who identify themselves as Mexican seem to feel targeted in my community. In my experience, folks from other Latino countries sometimes make a point of this as well, as in “they assumed I was Mexican”.</p>
<p>BTW, I am not saying California is “a racist state”. I AM saying it does not surprise me that some students would be more sensitive than others in a school setting, and it does not surprise me that some teachers seem insensitive. In the psychologist case, she was not apologizing, nor worried that she had given a great deal of personal information about another family. She called back because she said this student had an IEP, and when I asked for a copy, she called to say…“oh he doesn’t have one. I was talking about someone else. Maybe next year.” How many of us would let that slide? Some families deal with that on a regular basis.</p>
<p>Cobrat, what I take issue with is I don’t see that you opine, don’t ee much “imo,” but that you tell us how it really is. And the anecdotes are your supposed “proofs.” You only know what you know. There are two sorts of anecdotes: those that share and those that are used, it seems, to immutably prove. Often, I think yours fall into the latter.</p>
<p>Most of us try to stick closer to our own orbit, not pulling in the old “friend of a friend’s hairdresser’s husband.”</p>
<p>I don’t know how you even begin to suggest we are ignorant or full of rhetoric and denials. Not fair.</p>
<p>I think that the sub probably said something unwise, but it may have been meant kindly or naively out of curiosity versus evidence of festering racism. Absent other information, I don’t think there’s sufficient case here to hang the sub.</p>
<p>And jym is correct - the OP could have easily said “I’m from here”, with the unstated assumption - “Well, I’m from America, just like everyone else in this room. I’m not ‘different’ or ‘less American’ because my name may be an unfamiliar one to you and / or I have different color skin.”</p>
<p>Pizzagirl,</p>
<p>That’s not all he said to the OP. Read her entire first post and consider the totality of her account.</p>