<p>In this particular classroom situation, it doesn’t seem like a neutral question to me, because it was only asked of a few students. If the substitute was just interested in where students were from - he would have asked all of them - imho. (whether this would be a good use of class time is a completely different discussion) Instead there is an assumption that some students are from here and some are from places other than here. He seems to be interested only in where a few students are from. That is the problem, imho, in a situation where students should be treated the same as much as is possible. I see no reason in this situation that the substitute is justified in satisfying his curiosity. He may be well-meaning. That doesn’t matter. It was still inappropriate. imho</p>
<p>The substitute identifies some students as being different from the rest of the class. He sets them apart- whether intentionally or unintentionally. This is what I find inappropriate.</p>
The OP doesn’t actually say that. You also can’t know what anyone other than you is assuming unless they tell you, and the OP didn’t attribute a motive to the sub for his crime.
I actually think it was inappropriate, but for different reasons. The sub didn’t know the class and didn’t know the dynamic. Far better to stay between the lines than trying to get personal in any sense because that would never work out. Of course, then the sub would be unfriendly, but far better to be assumed to be unfriendly than racist.</p>
<p>You are right. If every student were asked where they were from, that is a completely different discussion. I still don’t like the question in this particular classroom situation. I think I said that upthread someplace.</p>
I did and they had the same take on it, which was my literal interpretation of the situation that the teacher wouldn’t have known the race of the person holding the name of interest to him until the words had left his mouth, and that the OP didn’t provide enough information to know how many kids were actually asked or whether every white kid in that class had a stereotypically American name. My Pakistani boss was actually offended by the OP separating out “Asians” from “Indians” and assuming that Indians and people of middle eastern ancestry would look different from “Asians” and thinks that the OP may have an issue with such a multi-cultural class.</p>
<p>We could discuss whether the substitute’s behavior was racist or we could discuss whether it was zenophobic. It doesn’t have to be either to be inappropriate in this context. Motive or intent really doesn’t matter here. imo</p>
<p>I think it’s clear he isn’t interested in learning where ALL the students’ families are from. Just the ones with unusual, not often encountered, names.</p>
<p>So some say, well, he either has to ask everyone or he can’t ask those kids with uncommon names? Where are we headed? I get that OP was not comfortable. But is that alone what makes it wrong? How far do we go with this?</p>
<p>People ask my older girl, often. Not going to make any grand point here, but she generally isn’t uneasy about this. She takes the attitude, “well I am…” There have been times when the questioners are from a similar background and were aggressive about the question-- that is very different.</p>
<p>My best guess is that he thinks he knows where most of the students are from. When he asks, he already has in his mind that student is probably not from here - wherever here is. </p>
<p>Do we want all students treated the same in the classroom or not?
…</p>
<p>I do not casually ask people their religion or where they went to college. I try to be very careful about those questions. Frequently I **** up. Sometimes I **** up on a very grand scale. Usually at a dinner party after more than one glass of wine. One really should be my limit.</p>
<p>I should have qualified as I did earlier. *Do we want them treated the same as much as is possible? * I do want them treated the same as much as is possible.</p>
<p>I’m going to give someone else a turn to post now.</p>
<p>I think that his curiosity was understandable, and those of us who are interested in names would share it. (Although I always ask “That’s an interesting name, Do you mind if I ask about its origin?” Not “Where are you from.” That is just stupid.) We would also, I would hope, <strong>refrain from indulging it in that situation.</strong> And in particular would refrain from putting a student on the spot about the political situation in his/her parents’ country of origin!</p>
<p>When I was at school in England, I had a teacher who had lived in the US who persisted in asking me “what was wrong with” the US or trying to start a debate on US politics every time something hit the news. He may have just wanted to spark a conversation, since I was a bright and generally articulate student–he never asked any of the other Americans this stuff–but he only succeeded in making me feel attacked and insecure in his class. And since this was 1966-68, there were assassinations, riots–you name it --galore. So I know how the OP feels, to some extent.</p>
<p>There are some people who assume that, if they didn’t go to a prestige college, the question is designed to put one down. I get that. World is full of all sorts. (I get it- not that I agree that is a balanced way of thinking.)</p>
<p>I don’t know if all kids should be treated equally, just for equally occupying seats. Will say that it seems CC sometimes critiques the idea that every participant should get a medal.</p>
<p>I would sum up the philosophy of CA schools as “Celebrate our differences, but we are all the same.” I think this actually provides a confusing guide as to whether the sub’s inquiries were inappropriate.</p>
<p>^^Can you see any difference in what happened in the OP’s classroom and an official Celebrate our Differences day? It seems very different to me.</p>
<p>In post 128, where it now looks like I go off on even more of a tangent than usual in talking about my dinner party misbehavior, I was actually answering a subsequently deleted question. If I had seen the deletion in time, I would have deleted my response as well.</p>
<p>My D’s 6th grade class did a Christmas play intended to celebrate difference. The kids dressed up like the countries of their origin and all sang Christmas songs. Sure enough, an outraged neighbor was banging on my door because my 11 year old had uttered innocently the apparently offensive phrase “Mexican Santa Claus” at a Girl Scout meeting. The kid playing Santa in the play was Mexican. It was not a secret. It was highlighted. The teacher was making the point that this was okay. But, some (few) were not going to get it. </p>
<p>This is a public school and apart from that angry lady whose own child was eventually kicked out the school anyway because she was too disruptive for the teacher to handle everyone enjoyed the show.</p>
<h1>135 - While I don’t know for sure, it would seem to me the point of “Celebrate our differences, but we are all the same” is to be inclusive. The classroom situation Sweetcupcake describes is not inclusive. imo</h1>
<p>This varies by substitute IME. Some in HS DID cover the class material to varying degrees*. Others babysat and killed time. </p>
<p>The latter were mostly harmless and either left us to our devices or had a conversations with the class on various topics/current events while not making it personal for any student unless the student(s) in question volunteered to initiate the personal aspects. </p>
<p>One exception to this was one substitute for an English lit class who decided to discuss her political views in an overbearing manner and to make assumptions about our political stances without giving us a chance to utter a word. I and many classmates felt her behavior was so inappropriate and beyond the pale we reported it immediately to our regular teacher and the principals. Not sure if anything was done, but I never had/seen her again during the rest of my HS career. </p>
<p>In her case, the sub’s manner in bringing up and discussing the topic along with its irrelevancy for the class made this sub’s behavior highly problematic.</p>
<ul>
<li>Some were actually more demanding in rigor/pacing than our regular teachers which made things interesting and sometimes, easier later on.</li>
</ul>
<p>Regional experiences may account for the different perspectives of the incident on this thread. Two posters mentioned that they try not to ask others where they went to college. This is not something that I perceive to be particularly sensitive here in CA (other than vis-a-vis Pac 12 rivalries), and it brought to mind a funny saying about the “class system” in America:</p>
<p>On the East Coast, its “where did you go to college?”
In the Midwest, its “where do you work?”
In the South, its “what does your daddy do?”
On the West Coast, is “what kind of car do you drive?”</p>
<p>In CA, we generally don’t care much (in terms of judging) what a person’s background, race and pedigree are, because we are from everywhere. What seems to matter most here, in terms of status, is how much money one has <em>now.</em></p>
<p>If I took offense every time someone asked about my last name or ethnicity, I would have spent way too much time feeling angry, insulted, offended, whatever. What a waste of time. If they mean no offense, that’s wasted negative energy. If they are bigoted, that’s still their problem and still a waste of my precious energy. YMMV.</p>