Is it okay for teachers to ask about students ethnicity?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I would say that on the west coast it isnt " what kind of car do you drive" but on what community based organization do you spend your time and money?"
Many people don’t even have a car, ( they ride a bike- even from Seattle to Redmond), so we often carpool.
We are very dependent on groups such as Adobe to Vulcan to not only donate money, but to spend their Friday & Saturdays pitching in. Which they do with a smile. :)</p>

<p>When faced with a name I dont recognize, I will ask how to pronounce it. Often several times so I can be sure to get it right.</p>

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<p>Is this asked openly or gleaned subtly through innocuous seeming questions and careful observation?</p>

<p>I ask because I’ve found many newly arrived international students or immigrants from Mainland China would openly ask strangers questions like “How much do you make each year?” </p>

<p>Until they had someone like me explain to them that that line of questioning is taboo as it’s considered a highly personal and sensitive subject in many parts of the US, they were wondering why they had more difficulties socially integrating themselves with Americans at their college or other venues. </p>

<p>Unless things have changed in California within the last few years, my impression has been the same perceptions applied there, too.</p>

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<p>Nrdsb4: That is a very legitimate way to look at the issue imho. Another way to look at it is to say: if no one ever challenges the status quo, nothing ever changes. The type of behavior described in the OP offends many of our children, whether or not they are the target of the behavior. Perhaps that will change how we view these issues in upcoming years.</p>

<p>Bay, I like your post 139 very much. :)</p>

<p>While I take you at your word regarding your community, when I google racism + California - it really doesn’t reflect very favorably on the state.</p>

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<p>This is the problem with CC conversation. Googling data vs. real life. It’s very frustrating.</p>

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<p>alh, I’m simply talking about someone asking either about my ethnicity or my last name. I don’t think it’s a problem that needs to be “challenged.” I don’t find it offensive, and good thing, too, as I said before, I’d be in a constant state of agitation if I did.</p>

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<p>cobrat,
You don’t ask people how much they make in CA. You just look up their address and drive by and look at their house. :wink: Or zillow it.</p>

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<h1>144 -googling gets me to what seem to be major news media headlines, which describe racial profiling and lawsuits. All this seems real life. Of course it’s possible none of it is real any more than what posters report here. Sometimes I wonder if I am the only real individual posting here. Then the thought makes my head hurt so bad I have to go do something else for a while.</h1>

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<p>alh,
Of course there are racist incidents in CA, and possibly more than many states because, for goodness sakes, we have 31 million people living here! (More than the entire country of Canada). But as someone who has lived here for more than 35 years, my experiences here and traveling around the country make me believe that our state is way more progressive in the area of racial equality than many other states currently.</p>

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<p>allh, there are plenty of racist incidents in NY. Major news over the last few days, in fact, and they didn’t involve asking someone with an unfamiliar last name about their heritage. They involved things like detaining innocent people and publicly humiliating them for the crime of spending while black.</p>

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<p>if no one ever challenges the status quo-</p>

<p>Forgive me, but I’m challenging the nervous “status quo” about what it means to be PC:
I am interested in people’s ethnic backgrounds. Not prejudiced, not bigoted-- and I try not to be nosey or interrupt whatever is going on or supposed to be. </p>

<p>I’d be interested to learn who here has family from where. I come from a family that “had one foot in the old world and one in the new.” I was raised with some customs different than most others I knew. (Among my older immigrant relatives, all of whom considered themselves most definitely American.) My graduate program was related to ethnic studies. I loved the multi-cultural openness of CA; just came back from NYC where I loved hearing different languages in every spot. </p>

<p>OK? I am challenging that we can’t ask. That it is somehow insensitive. Yes there are bigots. Plenty who play an “I’m better than you” game. Does it mean those who are asked are somehow being “shamed?” </p>

<p>If so, that would have to be, imo, predicated on that idea, above, that there IS some difference that makes some people, only some, “real Americans.” Or that having close ties to the former country makes one lesser. I don’t see it that way.</p>

<p>And yes, I do sometimes ask people what state they are from. All our experiences can influence us.</p>

<p>(No, I don’t think it’s the best choice to use class time to go off course. And I can see he embarrassed OP by asking about politics- because OP had to admit she didn’t keep up with that.) </p>

<p>Off the soapbox now.</p>

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<p>Some of Zillow’s pricing is highly optimistic IME. Also, even if a given area is as highly priced as portrayed on such real estate sites, it is just as likely the owners are mortgaged to the hilt. </p>

<p>As such, they could be financially strapped in ways similar to renters living in some exceedingly high rent areas of NYC whose rents are so expensive that according to some waitstaff/proprietors of restaurants in those neighborhoods, most of their clientele are actually tourists and folks who don’t live in the neighborhood.</p>

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<p>In CA, among some, appearance is everything. So, the house and car can matter more than the financial reality.</p>

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I personally don’t find a teacher questioning a high school student, originally from Nigeria, (or not, maybe Sweetcupcake was born “here”) about Nigerian politics appropriate - especially in this context. Maybe Sweetcupcake knows about the political situation, maybe not. Either way - It was a smart move not to engage with the substitute in that discussion imho.</p>

<p>garland #74</p>

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<p>Maybe if I quit being such a thread-hog, garland and oldmom and sseamom and all others who can explain so much better why the situation the OP describes is inappropriate will come back and post.</p>

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<p>alh-and here I thought you were doing a superb job of explaining! I wish we could link private blogs because although the author stopped posted a couple of years ago, there was a wonderful blog by a white guy who talked about things white people do-including what some on this forum are doing-basically telling a person of color that her feelings are invalid, and that THEY are offended that SHE’S offended! </p>

<p>Speaking directly to the political situation-some of the countries in Africa are very volatile. Speaking up about your political opinion can get you, or a relative killed. Or if you left to come to America to get away from it, you don’t want to think about it, or maybe you just have more pressing things going on than to follow politics.</p>

<p>At my job we work with some immigrant families who have escaped the most horrific conditions imaginable. One of the teens suffered PTSD, health and mental health issues as a result. His sisters balanced school with helping their parents to understand our society, from helping them shop to navigating the health care system. Chances are they weren’t following the “political situation” beyond whether their family members left behind were still alive. The situation isn’t an academic exercise, it’s real, and deadly. Having a sub single one of them out to ask would have been inappropriate, whether he knew their background or not. </p>

<p>I have no idea whether the OP can relate to any of that. But sometimes things are best left unsaid. </p>

<p>A lot of people here are saying it’s no big deal that he asked about her name. I agree that with some names, asking about pronunciation is the only possible way to get it right. But that isn’t what he did. He got personal, and that’s not what you doas a sub in a class.</p>

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<p>Okay, here’s another example. I’m active in the Jewish community. Obviously, there are or have been Jewish communities all over the world, including in India, China, and Ethiopia, so not every Jew is going to look either European (Ashkenazi) or Middle Eastern (Sephardi). However, the vast majority of Jews you encounter in US Jewish communities are going to be one or the other, so when you see a Jewish person who looks black or Southeast Asian, it is unusual. </p>

<p>Now, I think most Jews are fascinated and excited by instances of diversity in the community. When I encounter, say, a black Jew, I am, naturally, curious. Are they from an Ethiopian Jewish family? Are they adopted? Did they convert? In either case, there is probably an interesting story to be told, one that may be less typical than the stories of a lot of other people. And if I get to know that person, even in a comparatively casual way, I can be assured that the topic is going to come up at some point, both because it is natural for people to discuss their backgrounds, especially two people who have taken on a set of religious practices often linked to upbringing, and because the person, not being ashamed of his or her background, is pretty likely to bring it up, in the same way I bring up interesting things from my life in conversation.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if I meet a black Jew at a Shabbat meal, I certainly DON’T ask that person “so, are your parents Jewish?” or “are you adopted?” That isn’t because it isn’t my business - while it isn’t, since there is nothing wrong with being an adoptee or a convert, it shouldn’t be a secret - but because it creates the impression that the other person somehow needs to explain her presence at the table whereas everyone else’s right to be there is taken for granted. It might not be an issue if the question came up once, but can you imagine if EVERY time you, as a Jew, walked into a Jewish event, total strangers asked you these questions?</p>

<p>Let’s not be disingenuous. The teacher, though probably a perfectly nice guy, wasn’t asking “where are you from?” in the same way you ask any person you’re introduced to what state they grew up in. He also wasn’t doing it as part of a cultural exchange. He was curious, and asked ONLY students with certain identifiers that indicated foreign ancestry about their country of origin. I don’t that not doing so would have robbed anyone of an opportunity for celebrating diversity.</p>

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<p>What I find interesting is the assumption, based on posting, as to who is white and who is not. Do you really think you can tell based on faceless postings?</p>

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<p>I caught that too, zoosermom.</p>

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<p>apprenticeprof,</p>

<p>I’m sorry but I don’t understand what relevance your example has to the incident at hand. </p>

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<p>Or…this teacher might have sincerely asked about names he could not pronounce without any eye towards making anyone feel uncomfortable. He could have been a mediocre sub trying to waste time doing something he erroneously thought was relevant to a government/politics class. And it is possible that not a single other student was offended by what happened. Did you entertain those possibilities, too? Or are you dead-set on assuming that his intent was nefarious?</p>

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<p>YES -Excellent - In a nutshell</p>

<p>It doesn’t matter whether or not the substitute is racist. Really.</p>

<p>What matters is that some students are made to explain themselves. imo</p>

<p>We can discuss racism or xenophobia but that is a side issue. imho</p>

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<p>No, it is not analogous to this incident. The sub was not questioning whether the particular students had a right or reason to be at school.</p>