<p>Ever since last summer when I first got introduced to the rigors of the college admissions game, I never thought of it as cruel. That is, until I saw last Friday’s episode of Joan of Arcadia (great show, by the way). Joan is a junoir in high school, smart but not motivated in the least toward school. Nevertheless, she got straight B’s sophmore year (including AP Chem), a huge rising trend from 9th grade and has a variety of really good explainations (a move , the paralysis of her brother, Lyme’s Disease, etc.). Yet her VP becausely tells her she has no future at any 4 years schools while touting Stanford to her broyfriendd.</p>
<p>It may seem quite stupid to care about a TV character (albeit one on an extremely high quality show), but this raises a fundamental question about this whole “college climate” for me. Is it right to shoot one kid down while using another to garner prestige for the HS? Does anyone truly have no future at a 4 year school and should they be told so? Is the college admission process cruel?</p>
<p>Oh, and just out of blanant curosity: what kind of schools would fit someone like Joan (Maryland resident)?</p>
<p>Joan could easily get into 3200 of the 3500 colleges in the United States, and likely 150 to 200 more of the remaining 300. (And if her family happened to have A LOT of money, and was willing to spread it around, it is likely she could get into them all. But let’s stick with the facts of the situation.)</p>
<p>Back in the distant past before schools were so competitive, I had a friend who wanted to valedictorian of our high school more than anything. Was maintaining perfect grades, too. Then in his junior year one of the high school counselors told him that he was an overachiever, that his test scores did justify that kind of ambition. Ed quit working so hard and was never quite the same. Went to a third rate school and haven’t heard from him since.</p>
<p>Didn’t say anything then, but after all these years I’d like to have a long talk with that counselor.</p>
<p>I am counseling a girl right now that I think has a 2.5 GPA. Senior year is her first year at this school, she was at another school for freshman year, had a troubled sophmore year ( in trouble academically, and was on probation for various things)was back junior year at the school, still had behavior issues and but is determined to have a fresh start senior year.
I really want to support her, but feel like I am over my head.She really wants to attend college but doesn’thave the grades or the coursework. Still I know that I can find her something, but I wonder what I should advise her?
She will need a full scholarship, her mom is living on child support which is very, very minimal. By my accounting their income is less than $6000 a year, and that is beyond my comprehension. I have been helping her find scholarships, but I who thought I knew so much about colleges find I don’t know anything about schools for kids with lower numbers and so much financial need.
I know about schools that want kids who can full pay even without good grades and I know about schools that have great aid for kids with need and good grades, but both?</p>
<p>A couple of thoughts. First, you should look at the state schools. Most states have some schools that are fairly easy to get into and provide scholarships to needy students. Forget about prestige. Right now, pretty much any degree from a certified college will benefit this girl.</p>
<p>Second, she could look at community college to get the basics out of the way. She could live at home, take a couple of classes a semester and work. It is not the easiest way to get through college, but lots of folks have done it that way. We tend to focus only on the traditional path at high end schools, but there are LOTS of options out there for motivated students. </p>
<p>Any scholarships she get will probably have to be federal Pell grants or institutionally based. She is going to have to get a job and work while going to school no matter what option she chooses.</p>
<p>wolfpiper, how bout those Gilmore Girls? My wife talks about Rory’s college application process as if she were a real person! Harvard? Yale? LOL And yes, Joan is also a big favorite. </p>
<p>We have learned much to our gratification that there are many excellent schools out there that are NOT highly selective. Some of these schools accept students with surprisingly (even “shockingly”) weak stats. They are able to round out the student body by offering generous merit aid and providing a very attractive educational environment.</p>
<p>Joan can go wherever God wants her to go, and she knows it. He’s got a lot of pull with the ad coms. </p>
<p>In real life what that VP did was very wrong - and it does happen to students all the time, especially kids with learning disabilities who often are very capable but may need accommodations to succeed. The world is full of youngsters who were told exactly that – that they weren’t “college material” - and proved their teachers wrong. The late Sen. Paul Wellstone was one – he had a very big problem with standardized tests, but he earned his Ph.D. and was a professor at Carleton for many years before he was elected to the Senate. (If you are interested in what he had to say about education, there’s a good speech here: <a href=“http://www.educationrevolution.org/paulwellstone.html[/url]”>http://www.educationrevolution.org/paulwellstone.html</a> )</p>
<p>I think the whole point of the t.v. program is that the V.P. is supposed to be a big jerk who routinely undermines students. We live in a country where any kid of ordinary intelligence who has the desire for a college education can get one – maybe not Harvard, but the t.v. Joan lives 7 miles from Pasadena City College, 9 miles from Whittier College, and 11 miles from CSU Los Angeles (though CSU Fullerton, 20 miles away, is probably a better choice for her). And that’s just without her having to leave home.</p>
THis reminds me of my sisters family praying for God to let them know where their kids should go to school. I wondered why that didn’t work beforehand to find out where they should apply, so that they didn’t go through getting denied at almost all their schools, or have to be admitted to their first choice school, but then “God” deciding that she shouldn’t attend.</p>
<p>I don’t know a lot about schools with full scholarships, but I do know that some smaller schools (around here at least), will give a full scholarship based on SAT scores alone. Has this girl taken them? Could she take them, and would she do well? For example, Thomas College (up here) gives a full scholarship to anyone who breaks 1200 on SATs. It’s not a top tier school by any stretch, but certainly better than nothing.</p>
<p>emeralkity4–your student will probably have to take out loans to go to school, which may be very scary for her. For someone without the coursework, CC is the best way to go–much cheaper, more classes geared for people who need to come up to speed in math and writing. A great CC record can go a long way to make up for a dismal HS one.</p>
<p>I am thinking that CC may be the best choice. While she wants to go to college, I don’t think she has a realistic idea of the academic work involved in becoming a nurse.
She also doesn’t seem ready to really put more energy into it than she has been. While she has made huge strides with her attitude,and it is testament to her strong will and others involvement that she is on track to graduate high school, she needs to do more than want to be a nurse, she is going to have to learn that she has to take certain classes to do so.
Boy it is so hard, cause obviously she has had a challenging life, and she is starting down a positive track, but she still has a long way to go.</p>
<p>She should take classes to become a CNA first; that way she has a method of earning a part-time income (they are in great demand) while she does a nursing program.</p>
<p>Please don’t miss the point that a community college or a junior college IS a college. A person starting out in community college (for whatever reason) is going onto post-secondary education & preparing themselves in the best way for future success whether it’s receiving an associates degree or transferring onto a 4-yr college.
That student will be doing what she NEEDS to do to make up for her un-focused high school performance.
It doesn’t mean she doesn’t have the capability; she just never used it in high school.</p>
<p>Although you can get a BS in nursing, most nurses I know are just RNs (without the 4 year college degree)–our local CC has a program for RNs. It is not an easy program–the chemistry and math classes can be very challenging for someone who hasn’t had the background. I’m all for getting up to speed at a CC by taking math classes and getting the CNA certificate to get a taste of what nursing work is like.</p>
<p>Emerald, I second mini, and Ellemenope - she should look hard at CC, it will help her confidence and her GPA and be cheap. She should also investigate CNA,LPN and phlebotomy, depending on how much income she needs, how much remedial academic work she needs, etc. Some combo of fast, cheap medical skills training and making a start on her long term career education may be more practical than a 4 year residential college. If she can become a nursing assistant or phlebotomist and get a hospital job, the hospital may have a tuition assistance program that will help her go forward with her nursing ed - mine does.</p>
<p>I know that a cc is just as challenging as many 4 year schools and that the nursing programs can be quite rigorous. She is really interested in going to a 4 year school, but from talking to her I also have the impression that nursing may just be something she has seized onto as a way to make a decent living. While I think for many kids it is advantageous to live on campus and experience the “college”, I am concerned that going to school, thousands of miles away from home will be a bigger challenge than she anticipates.
I think it will be good to take her prereqs at a CC while she gets a better idea if this is something she wants to pursue, and getting training for an aide or even LPN will be much faster than even a CC RN program.</p>
<p>CC RN where I live is a minimum 3 1/3 years - a year of pre-reqs., plus two years and 1 summer. Not much different than a B.A. in Nursing at the U (or at Penn for that matter), just harder to get in.</p>