I dont’ see how that couldn’t hurt. I mean, my sibling and inlaw travel all over the place, but never to us; it’s “too far” but it’s obviously not the problem – I can’t imagine how hurtful it is to have a child do this (or agree to it, at least).
Sometimes I feel like my family (mine, his, the kids) has become this big scrum of yelly people, and somebody has to have the sense to stand away and not argue about where/how/when things are going to happen – but I do resent sometimes that it always seems to be ME. I don’t want to put my kids between a rock and a hard place, but it’s so disappointing to always be the person who is quietly not being the hard place or rock without any sort of notice from the crowd that I am giving something up for the greater peace. And sure, we could just make plans of our own, of course, but that’ s not really what I want, I want to come first sometimes. Sometimes.
I guess I should clarify what I said above. I want my kids to want to come see me. I do not want them to feel obligated to come see me. I have enough resentment about my mom’s and sibling’s expectations of me that I am not going to pass that along to my kids.
If my kids feel the need to be doing other things on the holidays, then so be it. If they feel the need to consistently go to another state on vacation and not come see me very often, if at all, then I may have a discussion with them. I may ask them why they don’t come and remind me that the travel issues go both ways and it would be just as hard for me to go see them. I may tell them that I am disappointed that they don’t come visit and I may ask them why they don’t come and if there is anything I could do to make it easier for them to come. Do they want permission to stay in a hotel instead of my home? Do they want a dedicated room for them so they can stay at my home instead of a hotel? What would make it easier for them?
I would try to let them know that I would like them to come visit and why it is important to me. Maybe they think I don’t care for some reason. I may ask them why it appears that it isn’t important to them and what can I do to make it easier? If it is worded in a way that makes them think about how it appears to me, instead of angry piling on of expectations and hurt feelings, then maybe they can think about it, clear up misunderstandings, and work something out.
One personal example for us is that we have 2 cats. My son in law is allergic to cats. Maybe he could assume that I knew that without telling me and refuse to come. I could get hurt feelings that he is choosing to do other things instead of come see me. If I asked what was up and was told about the cat allergy then we could work something out. Cat allergies would not be the first thing I would think of if someone wasn’t visiting if I wasn’t told that was an issue.
I’ll just add (cause there is no solution really unless @deb922 gives us her kids phone numbers… ) - and also I understand that you weren’t hunting for a solution just asking to vent…
BUT it’s this type of situation and many other variations that make many of us dread “the holidays” - not only all the physical heavy lifting of gift buying, cookie making, cleaning the house etc but the EMOTIONAL heavy lift of accepting an old normal or a new normal.
I personally hate that society spends what feels like 3 months of the year on a couple of holidays. There is plenty of joy around the holidays but never forget, for many, there is also a lot of heartbreak.
I give you permission to drop anything and everything associated with the end of the year that doesn’t bring you joy. Except for giving charity as generously as you can, and for saving whatever year- end receipts you’ll need to file your taxes. Do those.
But drop everything else.
I’ve got friends who clearly thrive on the whole busy/busy/busy baking, decorating, buying, meal planning and recipe swapping and finding the perfect outfits for everyone. Terrific. And I’ve got friends who hate most of it, find it stressful and joy-sucking, get involved in competitive gift giving with some heinous sister-in-law who always ignores the $15 limit, and get riled up by the world’s most toxic relative who has to comment on everyone’s weight gain as they sit down for a meal.
Seriously- you can opt out. You aren’t an indentured servant who has a contractual obligation to show up and make the boss look good. You’re an adult with free will. Find your OWN joy, which may or may not involve shopping or baking or decorating or cleaning.
My friends who hate the whole endeavor are slowly starting to realize that it takes a loss (the parent who hosted dies) or some other “shock to the system” (a divorce) to get them to admit that they dread the holidays and would rather do anything else. So guess what- do something else BEFORE something happens!
I’ve now saved you months of therapy and those dreaded co-pays. The day my therapist said “Why do you bother keeping up with things that don’t mean anything to you and aggravate you in order to “save face” with relatives who are already dead?” was quite the shock to the system. But truthfully- doing things because that’s what mom always did, even though it drove HER crazy and made her anxious and mean and made us all hate whatever tradition she was keeping up???
We all have so many baggages as we are “baring our soul” here. We are all victims of our parents’ expectations, so we do t want to be “that parent.” At the same time, we love our kids, we do want to spend time with our kids, and we also want them to want to see us, not just because they have to.
My father was a bit of a tyrant. He made all of us come home every Xmas . Even though We lived all over the world - Asia, South America, CA, NC, TX, we all still brought our infants, toddlers, healthy or sick, back to my parents’ house. Sometimes we wished we didn’t have to do it, but for our kids, it was their fondest memories growing up. They all looked forwarded to seeing their cousins every Xmas for a week or so. Now they are all grown, we go on vacation every other year around Xmas time (they spend other years with their in laws).
D1’s in laws also had such tradition. Every year they went camping some where upstate NY in August. It was open to everyone in the extended family. Now the kids (cousins) are all grown, they still continue the tradition. Camping is not D1’s cup of tea, but she knows it’s important for her husband, so she rents an Airbnb nearby, but she goes. My son in law and his father are big skiers, and D1 doesn’t like the cold, but she brings their toddler to go skiing with them a few times a year.
i dont think there is anything wrong witb us putting a bit of pressure on our kids sometimes. They are busy and it would be easy for them to de-prioritize us, but if they make it a must do then it can be bebeficial for them and their kids in the long run.
We joke about Jewish and Chinese guilt, but i am not too proud to pull it sometime. “Hey, after I carried you for nine months, cleaned up after you, went through all of your trials and tribulations, and spent over half a million dollars on your college education…yeah, you can come see me on few holidays.”
My husband and I are rethinking our retirement plans for the same reason. Originally, the plan was to go out of state but after talking to friends whose parents left and then ended up moving back to where their kids/grandkids are because no one visited and they were lonely, and hearing my in-laws lament that no one visits them in FL, I decided that it’s important to stay close to where my kids and eventual grandkids would be (luckily they are in my city and plan to stay), and just travel more in retirement vs. moving somewhere permanently. The 20’s & 30’s are a very busy time in life - marriages, demanding jobs, having kids, kids’ activities, etc., it’s hard to expect regular visits (throwing into the mix that they often only get 2-3 weeks’ time off from work a year).
In your situation, Deb, it’s clear that you’ve effectively communicated your wishes and concerns. You don’t want to badger (I wouldn’t want to either). At this point I would do my best to accept that I will have to do the traveling if I want to spend time with them and then just keep hoping that maybe when the toddler is a bit older, they will be more flexible with reciprocating and maybe at some point your grandchild can come and spend and extended time with you, at your home, on their own, if the parents are too busy with life.
This is what DH’s parents used to do and is the sole reason all five siblings refused to spend much time with them. And told them so. My dad tried a version of that once, and I shut him down pretty quickly–you use guilt, you spend your holidays alone with it.
We love our son and enjoy any time we can spend with him, but he doesn’t owe us anything. We’ll take what we get and be happy with it. He has a wife now, so I expect we’ll be getting less time in the future as her family counts as much (or little) as we do. Unmet expectations are the root of hurt. Easy to say, but letting the expectations go makes everything easier.
My take on my kids was that I chose to have them. They didn’t choose to have me. I raised them because I wanted to. They didn’t get that choice. They owe me nothing. I threw my whole heart and soul into raising them the best I could with what we had. I am glad that H insisted that Christmas morning was going to just be us 4 always. We could travel after or whatever. But that time was special. And I loved it, but I also knew I’d only have until they went to college (or graduated). It would not last forever. I was raising them to fly away and have their own lives.
I will happily visit them if I can - though I will say 500 & 800 miles is far and we couldn’t do it often. Younger S is 600 miles away. We went twice last fall and probably won’t see him again until he moves closer to us. 5 hours is definitely easier. But while I like to see my kids, I don’t HAVE to see them. We text pretty much every day. I love knowing what’s going on in their lives. I love when they travel, because they send me pictures of what they’re doing, and it just makes me happy that they can live such cool lives. And I like sending them pics of our travels, so they know Mom & Dad aren’t just boring people who sit on the couch all day watching the news.
We are also in a weird transition time, because my traditional family of 4 Xmases are over. I don’t mind sharing with others, and even if they all were here, it’s just not the same as when they were little. I would be just as happy visiting them, or going on a vacation, etc.
But I do realize everyone is not the same, and I tend to be the weird one. I would hope that if you asked the kids to do something just once for good old Mom, that they would comply… But I can also see a little bit of the other side. Traveling with my kids as babies/infants. Just not happening. My kids’ first time on a plane was at 6&9. The second time 11&14. Though that was due to $$$, I could not have had older S on a plane from 2 weeks old until at least kindergarten. The plane wouldn’t have made it off the ground. He couldn’t sit still for 10 min. And forget sleeping. He NEVER slept in the car EVER. We once left from the beach at 10pm (he was 15 months old) hoping he’d sleep some of the 4 hour trip. Nope. not a wink. And he talked the entire time. Younger S was “better” in that once in a car seat, he’d scream bloody murder until you took him out, or he passed out… until he woke up again and repeated the process… 500-800 miles? Just shoot me now…
And I was just so TIRED from working full time and then parenting… just doing anything more, I had to be picky and choosy… so I could see if H was driving where we DID go, that I wouldn’t have had to energy to fight… And surely mom would understand, right? Sorry for the novel…
I am definitely in a different situation than many people here. I feel like I would love it if I had to compete with my kids significant others for the holidays, and lose, because there are no significant others. And that makes me sad. Maybe if it ever happens, I’ll fondly remember the times when life was less complicated.
In a sense that is the opposite of what I have faced with my own family. Without boring anyone about the details, as adults with our own family (at the time just us), we were expected to accomodate everyone else by my family. I am not kidding, they saw nothing wrong with showing up at our door, literally unannounced, and wanting to go sailing (we had a boat at the time), or if they wanted to hold an event at our house, we were expected ot say yes, no matter what plans we had. I once had a massive fight with my brother and his family (young kids), they were in the area, and wanted to see us on a sunday morning, have brunch together. I told him we had plans that afternoon, but breakfast would be good. The day of the event I got a call at 11am or so saying they were just getting up, that they would be over after noon…and our event was in NYC like at 2. I told him we needed to scrub, that we had planned this a while ago (I also wll add my brother called me on the friday before, as they were going to the airport in Atlanta, to try and make plans for the sunday that weekend, when he had made plans weeks or months before with friends and other relatives…that tells you the assumptions they made about us).He basically said we will be there when we get there…needless to say we went to our event, I left a note with gifts for the kids,…and got a raging series of messages about how his kids were upset, etc, etc…(we had a kid too, the event was for him).
The point is your kids are kind of expecting you to bend over to the will of their spouses to make it easy on them, the way I did often with my family. I understand only too well wanting to keep a good relationship with your kids, but it is as bad of them to assume things of you as it is the other way around. You have a right to your own life, and they have to learn to compromise too, as painful as it can be.
Actually, you story is like mine (including a son who didn’t want to sleep until he was like 5…), plus we were sort of isolated from family anyway. My son went to a private school (hence we didn’t travel much,didn’t really go on vacations, etc etc,we could scrape up the tuition), and he was with kids whose family thought nothing of flying to Switzerland for a weekend of skiing. The first time he was on a plane was when he was 14 and we flew to the finals of a music competition in Alberquerque…which of course cracked me up (Bugs Bunny and that wrong turn).
Of course irony of ironies, as a member of a classical chamber group he spends a lot of times on planes, in airports at 5am, connecting, driving long distances and so forth. As a result we don’t see him much, and we are fortunate we are close otherwise. He texts us all the time, lets us know what is going on, what they are eating for dinner (a big deal with his group, they eat together a lot of the time), what the concert was like, the presenters, the audience, etc. Nothing forced, if we don’t hear from him in a couple of days we know he is busy, there is no pressure but he wants to share along with things about other people he knows, etc etc.
The funny part is we see him now a little more often because when in our area (NYC suburb) they feel comfortable enough with us to stay with us, because there is no pressure on them when they come or don’t, what they want to do. We of course love seeing our son and we like the other people in his group, so it works out…but the key is no pressure. If we weren’t able to be available (though my son knows we would be okay if for some reason we weren’t here that they were welcome to use the house), he would understand, he always calls and asks even though we have told him the door is always open, i think because we always show him respect , he has learned to do that with us, too:).
I’ll add that the best offer for parents of young kids is free childcare… “Hey, why don’t you guys make plans for a getaway over veterans Day weekend and we’ll come down and take care of little Susie…”
My sons are 3,000 miles west and 5,000 miles east of us. We don’t get them for holidays. They do make significant efforts to see us, and if we travel to them, S1 puts us up and S2 takes us everywhere and translates for us. S1 comes back to the east coast a couple times a year and almost always pops in for a brief stay. When S2 comes back from overseas, it’s more like a month. He and DIL left last night. I’d be profoundly sad if my sons didn’t care about seeing us. @deb922 I am so sorry your adult offspring are so inflexible about visiting. That’s so painful, and I completely understand not wanting to harangue and gullt them. Perhaps it’s time to establish some new traditions and activities.
When I was growing up, we were the “away” cousins and only saw grandparents and extended family occasionally (sometimes it was several years – and with cousins, it was decades). The joys of Army life! After that phase of life ended, the expectation became that we would travel to our parents, with our kids in tow. And so we did…to H’s family for Passover and Thanksgiving (4.5 hrs each way), and to my parents for winter break, 10 hrs each way (so we often had Hanukkah at their house, though they are Catholic). My mom and MIL never visited the house we live in. My dad has been here twice, and my FIL came a couple times a year, with my BIL driving him. My sibs dragged their kids to GA to see grandparents, but I’m happy to see my nieces and nephews prioritizing having Christmas at home now that they have children themselves. It also helps that my sibs live in the same towns as their in-laws and extended families. Makes navigating holiday travel a bit easier.
No grandkids here yet to make things even more complicated. S2 and DIL have said they’d love to have me come visit them solo (or stay on after H & I come to visit), and I will probably take them up on that, assuming western Ukraine remains relatively safe. I’ve been doing solo road trips to visit my sibs the past few years – they are all 600 miles away in different directions, and I enjoy being able to explore quilt shops, antique malls and public art in ways I can never do with H in tow. I would definitely be up for making grandkid trips for as long as I’m able.
My take on the parent/adult child relationship is that we love them more than they love us. We want to be with them more than they want to be with us.
They love us, but we are now on the fringe.
I think if we can accept these truths, it’s easier to quit expecting them to be dying to see us. If we want to see them, we need to make it happen and not expect them too. If we want to talk to them, pick up the phone.
If we want them to vacation with us, we pay.
As far as holidays, i dread them. I’m sick of the expectation. I’m sick of the work…I’m sick of the cooking and buying and decorating. I’m sick of feeling it’s not hallmark. I love January.
In answer to the question “is it too early to whine about the holidays?”
I say it’s perfectly acceptable to begin whining on Jan 1st.
I’m not a fan. Too much pressure. Too much stress. And there now is a large swath of the population who are struggling or will be struggling with hurricane damage - I say this year the holidays are cancelled.
Our s’s live an hour or so from each other, but across country from us. Holidays are a bit challenging with some birthdays and religious differences mixed in. And with extended families things can get complicated. Add to that the complexity of a family member in a wheelchair so logistics are tough. We are flying out to see them, but younger s and family have now made plans with college friends the weekend after thanksgiving. Older s and their family were going to go on an overnight experiment with the extended family who want to try their first overnight with the wheelchair/vent bound member at a nearby b&b to see how it is.Not sure if that’s still in the works. So we are a bit in the dark as to what the plans are….
We have one kid who lives a few thousand miles away. And he is a musician who usually has a gig on just about every holiday. BUT he will be here next week for his dad’s birthday for the first time since he graduated from high school. We are thrilled that we will be able to celebrate with him.
And there is a teeny chance his sister might be back from abroad before her brother leaves here.
I agree, though not with cancelling it but rather taking the focus off what causes pressure, the gifts, the big meals, and maybe focusing on what to me it should be about, being with friends and loved ones and being grateful for the gifts we do have and also remembering others who may not be so lucky. People affected by these storms (and hopefully not what I saw yesterday, another potential storm on the east coast of Florida) are going to be in a different place this holiday season, and it would be good to remember them if we start worrying about the perfect gift or who is seated where or whatever gives us stress.
) - and also I understand that you weren’t hunting for a solution just asking to vent…
I’d be profoundly sad if my sons didn’t care about seeing us.