I’ve spoken to large athletic schools like UMich and they treat their athletes like celebrities (state of the art facilities, nutrition and therapy etc). I’ve also spoken to several Ivies like Yale and Princeton… from the sounds of things they don’t have as much to offer in terms of facilities and treatment for athletes. I know that studying at an Ivy will pay off in the future and school will be hard, but is it worth passing up state of the world class training?
What’s your sport? Do you have any hope of going pro if it is a sport that allows one to support themselves?
Given that any athlete is one accident away from no longer playing, I’d focus on academics and your education first.
I like what @doschicos said. If you’re a potential pro, then maybe you go that route. The Ivies are for student-athletes. Notice how the student part comes first. A few will go onward in the sport. What is your hope? [Just reread this. I did not mean to insinuate that the athletes at Michigan and its peers are not student-athletes, but there is a different emphasis. That’s all.]
UMich is a great school. Is money involved? UMich can potentially give you a scholarship-- Yale and Princeton only have need-based aid.
Totally agree with doschicos. Unless you are thinking of going pro, academics should be top priority for “student-athletes”. Several of the athletes I know who are recruited from Ivy Div1 have sustained injuries in their senior year. Fortunately most have healed and can continue to play. However, in a non-Ivy school, if the athlete will be dependent on a sports scholarship, if they are not able to play by the time they are matriculated, unfortunately they will likely lose the scholarship. In the Ivys, there is no athletic scholarship. So once you are admitted, you’re in, no matter your ability to play or not.
Your student athlete life is going to be very different at an Ivy than at Notre Dame or Duke or Stanford. The facilities are just going to be different, the level of competition different (in most sports; there are a few where the Ivies are competitive like lacrosse, crew, fencing, hockey so compete against the best in the country), the travel conditions more luxurious. Lots of long bus trips in the Ivy league while Michigan is going to fly to Minn or Penn State, and probably only bus it to Northwestern, Wisconsin and Mich State.
Now if you play a minor sport, don’t expect to be treated like a Prince, even at Michigan. The football players have their own facilities and weight training rooms while the rest of the athletes share. Some team is going to get the 5 am work out time.
You have to decide how to balance the academics with the athletic. Plenty of combinations work. I don’t agree that every athlete is one injury away from losing a scholarship. In the Big 10 (and other Power 5 conferences), you have certain guarantees after completing two seasons. Look at the roster for the team and see how many juniors and seniors are still playing.
There is a dramatic difference in athlete support at a Power 5 conference school compared to an Ivy school. I’m curious what sport the OP is talking about as well.
D just went through this. Finding the right fit with the academics AND athletics is not easy across the divisions and leagues. I would say compromise on the athletics rather than the academics. I know several people that have been injured for all 4 years of college, and of one that medically disqualified as a freshman for ever competing in college. I don’t know of any that lost their athletic scholarship, so that aspect may vary by sport. In the end D chose the big D-I program over the Ivy because the academic program was stronger and the fit with the team and coaching staff was better.
I don’t know if this a black or white issue. A lot will depend on strength of intended course of study, IMO. Selective D1 schools like Stanford/Duke/Northwestern/UMich/ND may offer the best of both worlds for some folks.
The Ivies not offering any scholarships ( but good financial aid) is a biggie. Especially if your family is not eligible for need based aid, the kid is basically forgoing all athletic scholarship money in return for entrance into a highly ranked university. The price discrepancy between the 2 choices can be huge, especially if the kid gets a nice D1 athletic scholarship.
If you have a kid that is smart enough and/or a top ranked athlete that can compete at schools like UMich, Stanford where they can compete at the highest level while earning a scholarship, it seems that might be the way to go.
Maybe save some cash in undergrad years and then go to an Ivy for grad school??
If you would be eligible for need-based financial aid at one of the top Ivies and they have your area of interest, it seems better to take that road unless as others pointed out, you have a real shot at a professional career. At the same time, many of the larger state schools have renowned academic programs as well so it depends on the potential area(s) of study and how they are ranked nationally too.
These days most majors require at least a master’s so our DK will need to strongly consider schools that give decent aid (preferably merit not athletic for the reasons stated by other posters). In my mind this means we prefer he go to a lower ranked school if it offers more money since merit aid depends on grades and test scores. However, I’m pretty sure he’ll pick based on coaching style along with connections with players/school and then academics. Hopefully he’ll have a choice or two that we all agree on.
We stress that he needs to like the school in case he quits/has to leave sports behind. He plays lax so no real future professionally, not that he’d want that anyway. So OP, if I were you, I’d pick the school that matches your current academic goals with an eye on debt load and what you may want to do after college, because if you are strong enough academically for an Ivy then you’ll be getting something beyond a BS/BA.
Why not look for both? My daughter had a little more in merit than athletic aid, but honestly we couldn’t have afforded the school without both. She did not compromise on academic fit. The lacrosse part of it was really more luck than good selection. She went with a new team, had no idea of the quality of the other players, the coach, the support the school would give. She was pretty lucky as her team is now #5 in the nation and likely to make the tournament. There is another team in our conference and she really likes the coach
Playing isn’t the only way to stay involved with the sport professionally or in general after college. I have two brothers involved with lacrosse long after their college playing days. One runs a youth league, one is a professional referee, but their pay comes from lacrosse. Many of their friends are coaches, announcers, college team managers, or just dads who now are on the fields every weekend with their own kids. Lacrosse lives on.
I row. Olympic hopeful but will never make an income from it. If I go to a scholarship school I will likely receive a full ride, if I go to an Ivy I would pay very little after receiving financial aid
@luckyblack I’m assuming you are a junior in high school? Perhaps you’re making your round of schools to speak with coaches regarding your prospect for recruitment or were you already asked to commit by those schools you mentioned above? For the Ivys I’m sure you are aware of the academic index (AI) mandated by each school. Have you asked the coach whether your academic stats are good enough to pass the preread? Unlike the sports with a band system, rowing I’m sure you’ll need grades that are pretty much the same as the general incoming class to pass Ivy admissions.
A couple general thoughts as a former scholarship athlete with a son in the Ivy. First, the one huge advantage of the Ivy model is that the AD’s office has no where near the control over the athlete that you see in regular D1 schools, if for no other reason than as a scholarship athlete you are being paid to participate in your sport. Not saying that scholarship athletes have to be all about the sport, but you should realize that there will be times when you will need to balance conflicts between your sport and your studies. Personally, I think this is harder to do as a scholarship athlete. Second, you have to at least be aware that unless you are in a sport with a guaranteed four year head count scholarship there is a chance that your athletic aid will decrease over time if you do not perform as expected for whatever reason. No one wants to believe that it can happen to them, but it does. Consistently. Third, there are some advantages to the scholarship model academically. Priority registration, more formalized monitoring of academic performance, etc. If you are the kind of person who benefits from more structure, these things can be a great boon. I know that structure helped me a lot back in the day. On the other hand, my son is pretty much on his own. There is plenty of help available, but it is incumbent on the athlete to reach out for it. Fourth it is true that at some schools athletes are treated very differently than regular students (or NARPS as my son refers to them). Many of my son’s high school friends playing at big time schools live in huge apartment style dorms, eat only with their team, study in athlete centric spaces, get tons of "bling’, etc. They are pretty much segregated from the general student body. My son on the other hand roomed with regular students as a freshman and has been much more immersed in the culture of the campus. Again, depends on what you are looking for. Fifth and most importantly, the choice isn’t between some generic “Ivy” and a generic D1. You are going to need to make a decision between some number of individual schools. Try and think about it in those terms.
As to the specific things you raised, my son is at Princeton and the medical/training staff has been top notch. I know Yale had some issues with those services recently (there was an article in the Yale Daily News last year I believe) but again I would urge you to think about those issues in terms of the individual schools rather than in generic conference terms. Lastly, I have no idea what Michigan’s facilities are like for crew. But Princeton is a US Rowing training site and the US Rowing team is resident there. I doubt that they would be in substandard accommodations. The boat house itself is palatial.
There is a difference though between staying involved in a sport and trying to play professionally. I coached a bit and have kicked around being a ref. Playing in college definitely helps with that, because you develop a vastly different understanding of your sport when you play it at a relatively high level. What kind of a player I was really has no effect on those things. On the other hand, people who intend to try and play professionally need to concern themselves with the style of play of particular programs, the track record of particular coaches in developing talent for the next level, etc. Two different calculations.
One other consideration is the possibility of your COA going up at an Ivy if there is any change in your parent’s income during those 4 years. The athletic scholarship is guaranteed at the power 5 schools and a few others.
Rowing is different than other sports. For women, it is an NCAA sport and there are a lot of scholarships allowed to be given. For men, it is not an NCAA sport so it’s up to the school whether to give scholarship, the amount, and it they will be continued over the years.
I just saw that you are an Olympic hopeful for rowing. One of my Ds is a rower. If the Olympics is your goal then I would say chase the coaching and make that your main consideration. A coach at this level will make or break you. You need to be on a team with a coach that shares your goals and will advocate.
Thanks for the additional insight. This is a great thread. I think he will definitely continue to stay involved as a coach or adult player. And we will certainly look at all the options that eventually shake out. He is decisive and has pretty good judgment. We will need some kind of aid to make it work, that’s certain.
Rowing at Princeton - that sounds pretty awesome. Our DD is living there this year and we drive by that palatial boathouse when visiting.