I’m currently in the IB program and I was wondering does the IB diploma give you any advantages I want to join multiple courses(AP courses) but I’m required to take a language every year so I only have one elective spot till my 11th and 12th grade year where I will be able to take IB classes.
IBDP is usually more beneficial than an array of random AP and IB courses
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What are the advantages of being in IB
Or having the diploma?
What courses would you take if you did the IB program?
What courses would you take if not in the IB program?
Of the sets of courses in the answers above, which fits your interests and goals better.
I am not sure I understand why IB is considered a strong option for top students.
In the IBDP over two years you choose 6 classes, 3 high level taking 2 years each and 3 standard level taking one year.
If you look at how universities credit IB vs AP, an HL class is roughly equivalent to an AP class, but it takes twice as long to complete. SL classes are definitely below the AP since they generally don’t get any college credit, but maybe somewhat higher than a high school honors class.
Coursework alone you’re only doing 3 advanced classes but the program ends up being very demanding, I think because of lots of assignments and assessments, plus the program extras that take a lot of time as well.
The program specific requirements would probably depend on the fit and interest of the student, but in my view Theory of Knowledge is worthless and formulaic, and the Creativity, Activity, Service is a waste of time, a student would be much better served with extracurriculars that they really care about. The extended essay is a good feature of the program.
Going into the weeds, math and Physics IB classes are weaker than the AP counterparts, Chemistry and Bio seem to be about the same.
For a STEM oriented student IB is not a good choice.
I understand some of your points on the specifics of the IBDP and why it might be a better fit for some students than others, but in our experience many colleges do view the IBDP as an indication of rigor and an indication that a student will be prepared for college-level research and writing.
It is usually due to high schools offering the IB DP choosing to make it the “most demanding” option at those high schools. So students at those high schools who want to take the “most demanding” option for course selection need to choose the IB DP over other options available to them at those high schools.
This does not necessarily mean that the IB DP is the best fit or “most demanding” possible option for those students if they had a choice of other high schools as well. (Most high school students do not really have much of a choice, since choice of high school depends mostly on parent circumstances and choices.)
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For my “STEM oriented” STEM PhD candidate, it was a wonderful choice.
You’ve skipped over entirely how the classes are taught. With IB, it’s less “to the test” (which is a frequent criticism of AP) and more on fundamental grasp of the material. IB programs in our experience usually come with funding, and so (again in our experience) better overall program with coordinators, excellent teachers and adherence to an international standard. I often hear that AP is all over the place in terms of quality. Some argue IB suffers less from that. There is also something to be said about what a college is looking for when it sees a student that can take on a rigorous coordinated program and see it all the way through, as opposed to taking an AP class here and an AP class there.
IB students are not prevented from pursuing an extracurricular activity. Mine were college athletic recruits. But because of the time demands, IB kids are probably prevented from pursuing 50 “meaningful” activities, which is no sacrifice from my POV.
On the college admissions trail, more than once we heard how much the college admissions committee “loves” IB. Maybe the like to see students who waste their time. IDK.
Can you substantiate this? As a philosophy major, I thought it was great for my student to have a taste of epistemology in HS. From what I recall of her work and our conversations about it, “formulaic” is not what comes to mind.
Well, as you said, in your view. I see it differently.
Again, can you substantiate this rather broad claim?
Perhaps @poseidon_v attended a high school where the IB program did not offer math A&A HL, so that particular IB program may have been a poor fit for a STEM-oriented student.
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For math IB HL Analysis the breakdown of advanced math topics instructional time is 55 hours for Calculus and 33 hours of Statistics, the rest it is a review of topics from Algebra, Geometry and Precalculus, and that’s over two years. It also doesn’t cover all AP Calculus BC specific topics, or inferential statistics.
For comparison, AP calculus BC and AP Statistics have 148 hours of instruction each, and if you look on the syllabus the difference is significant.
IB Physics is not calculus based, which is a major drawback for someone interested in taking a rigorous introductory course. Again there’s the issue that Physics HL is two years, but AP Mechanics and Electromagnetism is one semester each.
To the previous poster with the STEM PhD child, congratulations to him, I’ve got those degrees from prestigious institutions, I’m more interested in the actual reasons than presenting some argument from authority.
A few things:
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The poster with the PhD child is the same poster who asked you all the questions. And it’s a her, not a him.
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My IB STEM PhD candidate was not presented as an argument from authority. It goes to the fundamentals of the argument you made, which was that “For a STEM oriented student IB is not a good choice.” Her IB prep helped her obtain an undergraduate degree in physics, a post bacc in advanced mathematics and land her in a [prestigious] PhD program. OTOH, you citing your PhD credentials [prestigious] is a classic example of making an argument from authority. If you had told me you had experience with IB and that you or someone close to you was unprepared to get those [prestigious] PhDs because of your poor IB prep, then that would have been another matter.
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I recall her saying that not having calc-based physics was an adjustment, so there’s something there. Sure. Whether it’s a major drawback probably depends on the student.
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I won’t pretend to be able to evaluate the differences in hours and specific items covered that you describe. IBD is a comprehensive program. Other things have to be able to fit. One thing, in particular, that it gave her was an enhanced ability to write clearly, and that has been a point of differentiation for her as compared to many of her cohorts. More than one advisor has said that her writing ability enables them to spend more time with her many peers who are smart but are not good writers. This proved invaluable for her Master’s thesis, which was published, and it continues to matter. And when she goes back to work in the real world, it will continue to matter. So, while she may not have maxed out in HS on a particular STEM topic or topics, she was well prepared for college STEM generally and brought with her to college other important academic skills.
At this point, it might be worth a review of your original claim:
I’m not sure I understand why you don’t understand why IB is considered a “strong option” for top students. It’s patently obvious unless you are operating with an exceedingly narrow definition of “top students.” Top students, even top STEM students, often want to be well educated in more than one area. Where is it written that to be a top student, or even a top “STEM oriented” student, that you have to cover the specific topics you cite and spend the most instruction hours on them? The PhD candidate kid didn’t take stats until college. Does that really matter? I don’t think anyone is saying IB is the best fit for everyone, or that’s it’s the best anything. But you came in pretty hot with some categorically sweeping conclusions. Prestigious PhD or not.
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Yes, it is true that topics covered in IB HL courses are not always that well aligned with typical US college frosh level courses (which AP course topics are intended to match).
However, advanced physics in high school, even with calculus as in AP physics C, is not a great match for physics in college, since AP physics C assumes and uses less calculus than is typical in physics for physics and engineering majors in college (particularly for the E&M portion).
The argument is that IB HL Math doesn’t cover well introductory classes in Calculus and Statistics and having an integrated syllabus, it dedicates less instruction time to advanced topics compared to AP classes for example.
For Physics a rigorous college level introductory course would be a typical three semester sequence but it requires Calculus BC for Mechanics, Multivariable for thermodynamics and electromagnetism, and differential equation and linear algebra for modern physics. I’d say AP mechanics is well aligned with the first semester of physics, while AP electromagnetism isn’t. IB Physics is worse in this respect because it’s an algebra based class.
If you compare options for advanced coursework for a high school student, in terms of course contents for STEM subjects, IB seems to be less rigorous than AP or dual enrollment.
My comment was that the content of IB HL math and physics classes does not measure up to AP or DE.
Another piece of evidence from credit awarded to math classes by some colleges (from Stanford, but you can look up others too).
AP Calculus BC, 10 quarter credits
IB HL math Analysis, 6 quarter credits
I wouldn’t call Theory of Knowledge an introduction in epistemology, if the student is interested in the topic why not take an actual philosophy class instead. It’s more of an IB specific class serving as a differentiator for the program.
Same with CAS, essentially you’re being asked to go learn about things. But the setup is artificial by dividing into several areas etc and is a very different experience from joining a club, interacting with peers, taking a leadership position etc.
I’m questioning the benefit of both ToK and CAS compared to taking a general education class or organically developed extracurriculars.