I would. And most public high schools don’t offer philosophy classes. My D benefited from it greatly.
Your mind seems pretty made up and I’m not sure there is anything anyone can say to sway you, which isn’t really the point of the thread anyway.
To the OP: IBD is rigorous, colleges think so, and I don’t know a single IBD kid who didn’t do very well in college, and I have a decent sample size.
Good luck.
We can look up what’s taught in ToK.
Opinions may differ but it seems pretty fluffy and pretentious to me. I’ll give you that there are worthless AP classes as well like human geography and others, but let’s also be honest about what’s offered on the IB side as well.
AP and IB are looked about the same by colleges, with a slight edge for AP as far as college credit that can be transferred out s concerned. IB SL classes are certainly seen as less rigorous than AP.
Is IB diploma seen as more rigorous than just taking an assortment of IB or AP classes? I don’t know if it’s true, I’d be curious to know if there any evidence for it.
IB DP is typically considered very high workload, so it can be very rigorous if rigor is defined by the amount of work (but not everyone uses that definition or thinks that it is the best definition of rigor to use). However, since its HL courses are not as well matched to beginning college courses in the US, the ratio of workload to subject credit and advanced placement gained may be worse than for AP courses – i.e. the academic return on time investment may not be that good.
However, within the context of a single high school, those which offer IB may not have as many non-IB advanced (AP or otherwise) courses, so that the strongest students may find that IB DP is the most rigorous and advanced option that they can choose within that high school.
FWIW, my institution considers all IB (SL and HL, including TOK), AP, and DE courses as advanced courses/high rigor which are given equal weighting in our transcript evaluation.
There are a lot of materials on the internet supposedly showing the benefit of getting an IB diploma for college admissions, but I believe they fall in the category of deceptive marketing, I’m very doubtful the numbers are true.
In our area IB programs are offered at private (bilingual) schools only and I started to look into it to see if there are worth it, so it’s not the only available choice.
The problem with the alignment stems from the integrated approach to the math curriculum for their classes. While I think it has some merits for high school classes (ie mixing algebra, geometry and precalculus), I don’t think integrated math is a good idea for first year college level introductory classes like Calculus and Statistics.
The contents of IB HL Analysis is a hodgepodge of Algebra, Geometry, Precalculus, Calculus and Statistics, that include topics like linear and quadratic equation that a strong student should have mastered well by 11th grade.
Please make your point then move on so the conversation can continue to move forward. Thank you for your understanding.
OP, schools choose which IB courses they are going to offer just as they decide which AP classes they are going to offer. For that reason, it’s going to be hard for people here to give you the best advice for your situation.
Our school offered both AP and IB classes. Students could do the IBD or mix AP, IB, and other classes as they liked. At our school, which had AP BC calc, the HL alternatives went beyond that. SL Spanish was also AP Spanish. Many STEM students took IB HL classes but didn’t do the IBD because they didn’t want to do FL or TOK and wanted more STEM classes. The IBD is, by drfintion, a diploma program, and accordingly, it has a broad range of subjects to be covered. At another school with other paths/choices, students might choose differently than they did at our school.
At most schools, the GC will consider the IBD program to be “,most rigorous”. It was at our school as,well, but so was a non-IBD STEM heavy curriculum.
You should give some thought to the idea of leaving high school with a base of knowledge in all those things you’ll never study again. At the same time, if your school allows it, you can use high school to dig deeper into subjects you feel drawn to.
Sensible advice, with a small correction. IB HL Math Analysis does not go beyond AP Calculus BC, they are broadly speaking equivalent.
The typical progression after AP Calculus BC is Multivariable Calculus, and neither College Board or IBO offer such a course. It can be taken at magnet high schools or through dual enrollment.
Taking IB HL Math after Calculus BC is somewhat redundant and is generally done only to get the IB diploma. It’s worth considering taking instead multivariable or Statistics.
The numbers are likely true, but probably more due to a selection effect. At schools with IB, it is the most demanding path that the strongest students choose, so IB students, preselected to be the strongest students in those schools, are likely to have higher success in college admission.
But this does not necessarily mean that IB is better than other ways that a school can offer advanced material to its strongest students. I.e. the higher admission rates do not necessarily prove a greater treatment effect for IB.
Again, it may depend on the school. At ours, BC is a pre-req for the two year IB HL, but the latter may include material beyond what is tested on the exam. (The school also has a confusing modular schedule, and some “mods” are part of more than one different sequence, so my understanding, as my kid did not follow this path, is that the BC class is the calculus in the HL sequence-- they don’t repeat it.)
Having said that, our school is known for having lots of coursework for advanced/accelerated math students and attracts enough to have lots of options for them.
We don’t know how OP’s school is set up.
If AP Calculus BC is a prerequisite for the two year HL sequence, then you’d have to take BC in 10th grade, and precalculus in 9th. There are very few students that would be on this path, I don’t think it’s correct.
I’ve heard that some schools use AP Calculus BC as the first year in the HL sequence, but still the second year of HL is a repeat of most of the material and only serves the purpose of getting the IB diploma.
One of the issues with the IB diploma program is that it slows down the most accelerated students because it doesn’t have the a la carte flexibility of AP or DE.
More information is needed on current math level, planned class schedule etc.
I think the advertised college admission numbers are still off, just common sense that for example UC Berkeley rate isn’t 46%, corrected for socioeconomic status included.
Actually, a number of kids do BC as sophomores. And the BC mod takes half a year (because classes mean double periods, so yes, it could be beginning of junior year too.) And there are other classes they can do if they are advanced and finish the sequence early… Just saying, not every school is the same. (And no, our school doesn’t have a typical schedule - It’s designed for kids who want to focus on certain areas to have the flexibility to do it.)
But this isn’t helpful tovthe OP, except to say that they should fully understand what their school offers as options.)
Anyone interested in the IB Diploma program should consider that over two years you’d sign up for 6 courses only. If you’re contemplating a stem major, keep in mind you’d only do 1 math class and 1 science class. Arguably that’s inadequate.
College admissions aside, a good preparation for that intended major should include coursework in math (calculus and statistics), sciences (physics, chemistry and biology), and also computing (principles and/or a programming language). Taking this coursework at the college level, would make the applicant competitive to many solid programs. You simply can’t do that through IB, but it’s not unheard that a good student would load up with about 8 AP to check off most of that list.
Some posters suggested that you can take AP classes in addition to IB, but that’s a very different situation. Taking 5 APs and 2 HL classes doesn’t mean the IB program is strong, but rather that you have to supplement the IB program to be competitive.
https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/program-summary-report-2022.pdf indicates that in 2022, 6% of AP calculus BC exam takers took it before 11th grade (33% took it in 11th grade). So it would seem that a high school with lots of students taking AP calculus BC before 11th grade is kind of an outlier.
IB math is probably not the best option for students that advanced in math, compared to going on to more advanced college courses if there is a suitable college nearby.
Agreed this is not the normal progression and to haveso many accelerated kids is unusual. These kids do not take the AP exam – because they are going on in math. And yes, because the school attracts a number of them, they have come up with a,way to keep them engaged!
Apparently my earlier post was too subtle as the same posters are continuing to debate their points of view. Please move on and focus on the OP’s question. Any additional posts may be deleted without notice. Thanks for your understanding.
New to the forum so maybe the moderator comments were directed at me? Can the moderator or someone in the thread clarify, I find it confusing to what the issue is.
I’m not moderating the thread, but here’s my thoughts.
When the original poster asks a question, particularly when a student, the responses should focus on the question and / or the student. Off topic conversations aren’t really helpful to OP.
Examples of helpful comments.
IBDP may not be ideal for STEM applicants.
Maths HL will cover equivalent calculus content to BC
Examples of unhelpful comments:
ToK is not a philosophy course
My 10th grader takes BC
There’s nothing wrong with talking about the merits of ToK, but it’s better off in its own thread
Thank you for asking for clarification. As mentioned by the other poster, threads should stay on-topic to the OP. If posts start to wander off-topic, those discussions should be taken to another thread. The OP shouldn’t have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant posts.