<p>
Exactly. Try that in the “utopian” no-second-chance countries.</p>
<p>I know the Skyway [suburb] area very well. It is adjacent to the Seattle city limits and there were horse trails there within earshot if not closer.</p>
<p>* know the Skyway [suburb] area very well. It is adjacent to the Seattle city limits and there were horse trails there within earshot if not closer.*</p>
<p>(I actually don’t know skyway- I was talking about Bridle trails in Kirkland- I attended lake washington high school? It was called Bridle trails because it was adjacent to Bridle Trails state park- with almost 500 acres of trails- and did also border homes with stables 
)</p>
<pre><code>I admit that perhaps I had could have selected less slanted quotes from the article- but I wanted to get people discussing-and I was hoping that the article would be read- because it has some good points
</code></pre>
<p>I do think that in many areas- science education will suffer because of the time taken up by debating if philosophy should be taught in biology-
( something that in Seattle- as the most unchurched region in nation- I don’t think we are worrying too much over)</p>
<p>we don’t have basic science and math knowledge in many schools- I don’t feel like we have time for discussion round and round.</p>
<p>It is frustrating being involved in education, because change takes so long- example the math textbooks they use in the district high schools hasnt been changed or evaluated for 20 years- even though the colleges complain students aren’t prepared- ( although a small cohort who has come through the gifted program at one middle school with excellent math instruction are on a different track- they take AP calculus)</p>
<p>They don’t have $ to offer student 6 classes a day- even though other districts with less money require 23 credits for graduation while Seattle requires 20.
They need to have studies and committees to look at things for several years while they discuss what would be the best way to go- meanwhile students are failing and dropping out.</p>
<p>Because juniors and seniors are unable to take 6 credits and thus continue on the college prep track that many are interested in- schools met with the district to request that a letter be written and sent to college admission offices stating that these students have less than a full academic load through no fault of their own.
The district refused to do so.</p>
<p>I don’t know if principals are allowed to discuss this and submit letters- but when you have a school that normally sends quite a good chunk of students to very competitive schools- and now the students don’t have 4 years of languages/math/science, the community is pretty teed’off.</p>
<p>These are the “best students” in the district and they aren’t allowed to take 4 years of 4 academic subjects ( language-math-history-english)- because the graduation requirements are just 20 credits and include 4 credits of non academic subjects.
Other students who may not be motivated to even fight the district- are taking even fewer classes- and are even less prepared for college.
High school education IMO is even more important now- than it was when I was in school. My husband who graduated with a D average, was still able to get a factory job with which he is able to help support the family.
But now with the NCLB and exit testing, how many students are even going to have a diploma? How many drop out before they get to high school?</p>
<p>I tried to get another thread going asking about what other districts offer- but I realize for some who have seniors it is a moot point.
I hope though, that after parents see their kids through high school, they may be interested enough to get/stay involved in the local schools, they are all our kids- and our future depends on them. :)</p>
<p>Even within these limitations, our ed system offers essentially unlimited chances to try again if someone is so motivated. We have multiple paths to a goal, and a higher ed system that is surprisingly meritocratic. For example, my cousin’s son moved to NYC this past year because the mother of his child was accepted as a transfer student to Columbia. She’s in her late 20s. Talk about a nontraditional student!</p>
<p>I guess my point was perhaps that while we have some very good colleges & ones where untraditional students can succeed- we have many students who aren’t getting to that place-</p>
<p>What was so different about my daughters background who is a biology senior at one of the most intellectual schools in the country and my own- a drop out of one of the top at the time suburban districts ?
The only thing I can think of is that I was so bored in elementary school- that by the time I was in junior high and high school- I was totally turned off- it just wasnt’ what I thought it would be.
dumbing down curriculum isn’t helping students to stay engaged.
while we have an AP track for those who are prepared- for those students who don’t have those opportunities- we are shortchanging and it will affect their entire lives.</p>
<p>One way to look at any trend or tendency is to examine the consequences when you can find extremes of the trend. For this one, we can see it in some of the Islamic fundamentalist countries, where the concept of education is religious only. The lack of secular education is basically what holds these countries back economically, thereby reinforcing their views of themselves as victims in the world.</p>
<p>But there is opportunity in this trend: a scientific major may be a good career choice for an entering freshman right now.</p>
<p>
Yeah, its probably because of all the time wasted in Seattle Public schools on addressing the students questions on Intelligent Designthose design folk are such a drag on science education
<a href=“something%20that%20in%20Seattle-%20as%20the%20most%20unchurched%20region%20in%20nation-%20I%20don’t%20think%20we%20are%20worrying%20too%20much%20over”>quote</a>
[/quote]
Oops, I guess not. Maybe intelligent design is just a straw man for bad science education in the public schools.</p>
<p>IMO the lack of science/math workers in the US is economic vs. political. In China and India smart kids but not wild math/science lovers - who in the US would want to become lawyers or consultants or IBers and don’t have to take math or science - go the math/science route because the path to economic success and freedom from scarcity is clearest if you’ve got that education under your belt. It’s possible to dream of millions in the US without ever doing much math/science at all.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hmmmm. Let’s see. Right wing Christians want to have kids taught that an aspect of science which contradicts literal Bible teaching is “flawed” and that the kids should be instructed in their science class to read a book which tells them that things are the way they are because an “Intelligent Designer” (wink, wink) made them that way, and not due to natural and eventually discoverable and understandable physical processes. People who think that science should be taught in science class object. This causes right wing Christians to feel justifiably “threatened”.</p>
<p>Ergo: liberal pro-science types are Nazis. Makes perfect sense…</p>
<p>Kluge,</p>
<p>to the best of my knowledge, there is not a design theory out there–not one–that would not make a student who now believes in a literal interpretation of the Torah feel stupid, everyone of them contradicts a literal interpretation of the Torah…be happy, it’s all good;)</p>
<p>These types of 14 year olds will be made to feel stupid either way: you gotta like that!</p>
<p>“Ergo: liberal pro-science types are Nazis. Makes perfect sense…”</p>
<p>Obviously you didn’t (or didn’t try to) understand my message. The fact that a mainstream media outlet would resort to scapegoating Christians for the presumed decline in science and math scores is the troubling part.</p>
<p>I believe MONEY is the main reason we have a low opinion of science. In the past most scientists worked in academia or did research in industry. It was hard to tell which was worse. Until recently academic jobs were poorly paid and also very competitive. Industry tends to hire scientists and researchers for specific needs. Once the needs are met and the projects are over, the jobs end. New projects might mean that there were different scientists hired, who had the specific backgrounds needed. This does not happen in every industry, but it is quite common and job security is poor.</p>
<p>In many fields, scientists have a very difficult time making a transition from the technical jobs to management. I know several who were very determined, obtained MBA’s and still could not find the opportunities for advancement. We live in the world of Dilbert. The dumb cluck - with the supposed management skills - is the one who is paid well and called “boss.”</p>
<p>Hey I don’t know if I should write here being Asian and all, but here’s my two cents:</p>
<p>I feel that America as a whole won’t go poor because it churns out the most creative managers every year. However while American colleges develop a small percentage of the population the rest of the people don’t ge that kind of an education. Whereas in my country and in other Asian countries, our colleges work to equip the people at grassroot level with technical skills but don’t give good managers. </p>
<p>This is why the BPO industry is flourishing but only low level obs are being exported and not high level ones.</p>
<p>What we do know for sure is that a few decades from now we’ll be looking back on the intelligent design supporters in much the same way as we currently look at those proponents of the Tennessee law that brought John Scopes to trial: What WERE they thinking?</p>
<p>Related to this topic are the decisions being made by school districts across the country to reduce or eliminate science programs at the elementary level to facilitate the scripted reading programs and math programs aimed at raising the test scores. That will come back to bite us in the . Our district has also trivialized history and social sciences outside of the scripted reading program.</p>
<p>“Our district has also trivialized history and social sciences outside of the scripted reading program.”</p>
<p>Public schools really do a bad job with history. The main concerns are being politically correct and not offending any groups. There seems to be little concern about knowledge or facts. If we keep on the same path, we will have textbooks which are no better than those of Russia in the era of Stalin.</p>
<p>I think the problem is worsened by state-wide adoption policies in TX and CA. The publishing houses try to avoid antagonizing anybody by producing textbooks that put everything in but the kitchen sink and at the same time are written in a bland, inoffensive tone. Because TX and CA are such large markets, the publishing decisions made to address the desiderata in TX and CA affect what is read and taught in other states.<br>
MA has just added a Science section to the MCAS component. MCAS is the 10th grade high-stakes exam that all students must pass in order to graduate.</p>
<p>this should probably go into the Seattle thread
but Washington has one of the more rigourous tests required for a diploma yet the per student funding is towards the bottom to support students.
I think it is important that there be some evaluation of curriculum and of teaching- but to require a high stakes test for graduation when support has not been there K-12 doesn’t seem quite kosher</p>
<p>
when discussing my daughters 504 plan yesterday with her counselor- we both were stunned that no testing is available for any language but English- accomodations that would be available on SAT tests like extended time- and calculators are not available on WASL-
the adjustment made for students that don’t pass WASL- is retesting.( which is expensive to the school)
For students like my daughter- who qualifies for both language and math requrements to be waived for college ( if necessary) she can take the WASL over again- up to 4 times- but that is not going to change her learning disabilty and how it affects her test scores.
I am already talking to families who are looking at online high schools where they can get a diploma and by pass the state requirements.</p>
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<p>From the late head of the Flat Earth Society (the real one, not the hoax one.) Can’t see why students aren’t being guided towards that “alternate scientific theory”. Wait - it’s because the flat earthers don’t have the political power to push it through. But right wing Christians do have the power to promote ID. And that’s why people are concerned about their persistent efforts to undermine the one scientific doctrine which most directly conflicts with the literal text of the Bible. The overall scientific literacy of the US is harmed by the official endorsement of the idea that “science” is a popularity contest of ideas. The religious right is being “scapegoated” because they are in fact the most powerful lobby against the principles of science in America today, a fact which is most clearly exemplified by dressing up a theological concept as a “scientific theory” and insisting that it be taught alongside actual science. Claiming victimhood when called on that fact is pathetic - but a stock tactic of the right.</p>
<p>I just read through this thread and unless I missed it not one criticism of the teacher’s unions. I’m absolutelyy certain that there is a direct correlation between the rise and power of the teacher’s unions and the fall in our ability to educate our children in not just the sciences but all subjects. There are many, many good teachers but there are plenty of bad teachers who wouldn’t have survived in the past. Now they can hide behind the protection of the NEA/local state teacher’s union. In most States the union’s have created artifical barriers for admission to the teaching profession. There are many, many non-teachers who are well-educated and smart and dedicted who would love to be teachers but don’t have the inclination or time or money to go through several years of so-called training needed to be teachers. I’m certain there are many retired scientists - chemists, et.al. who would love to teach but the NEA/others don’t want them - they are are threat to the incompetents - they might actually stay past the bell to help students. [my aunt, a teacher, has been forcibly warned by her union rep. not to do any extra work - it would make the other teachers look bad and then the administration might expect it]</p>
<p>Check out this article about teachers currently on strike in PA - <a href=“http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15446886&BRD=1697&PAG=461&dept_id=44551&rfi=6[/url]”>http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15446886&BRD=1697&PAG=461&dept_id=44551&rfi=6</a><br>
The average salary in this district is over $80,000 per year, they don’t work summers, they don’t work overtime, and they’re objecting to having a larger increase in their prescription co-pay. They are living in fantasyland - but the taxpayers are letting them. How many of you who aren’t public employees have guaranteed pensions, don’t pay a huge sum for your health insurance, and have protections against being fired for gross incompetence.</p>
<p>We should also take a good look at how we group children - their are many programs for the ‘gifted’, many programs for the disadvantaged, a huge sum of money spent on “special education” (almost bankrupting some districts - and the kids in the middle, many good students, are left with nothing. In my own State of New Jersey, the City of Newark spends more per capita on its students than its wealthy suburbs - what’s happening to the money? It’s so interesting here in NJ - a number of the minority leaders who oppose vouchers and school choice send their children to private schools. [“Politicians who promote public schools don’t always send their kids to them,” said ABC News journalist John Stossel in a segment of the 20/20 program broadcast on January 28, called “Public Schools for Poor Kids, Not Politicians’ Kids.”</p>
<p>You might think the people who fight for public schools would always send their children to those public schools, but that’s not the case, explained Stossel. As an example, he cited Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), who has called public education the “cornerstone of our democracy.” Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, also declared he was “unalterably opposed to a voucher system to give people public money to take to private schools.”</p>
<p>Yet when the Clintons were in the White House, they sent their daughter Chelsea to an exclusive private school.</p>
<p>Stossel pointed out that many poor families would like to exercise the same option as the Clintons, but don’t have the money. He cited the example of Ivan Foster, who wants to get his two children out of the dangerous public schools in Camden, New Jersey, where spending is almost $15,000 per pupil. If Foster could use those education tax dollars as a voucher, he could afford to send his children to a private school.</p>
<p>But many politicians oppose the idea of letting education dollars follow the child to whatever school their parents choose. These anti-voucher politicians, noted Stossel, include U.S. Senators Lincoln Chaffee (R-RI) and Edward Kennedy (D-MA) and Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL), all of whom have chosen private schools for their own children.</p>
<p>When Stossel described parents without money as being “stuck in the prison of the government monopoly,” Jackson responded by saying, “I wouldn’t call it necessarily a prison.”</p>
<p>Jackson also said, “No one is keeping [poor parents] locked in now. They can make decisions for themselves.”}</p>
<p>As for Intelligent Design - as far as I can tell any mention of ID would be a few sentences in the class pointing out that there are those who believe that the complexity and wonder of the universe has as it’s foundation a higher power. I haven’t read of anyone calling for courses on Intelligent Design. And I haven’t heard anyone say that ID would change the way science is taught or understood, even how evolution works.</p>
<p>
Digmedia,</p>
<p>Did you mean, falsely? The rewriting of the Scopes Trial is near Orwellian in its double-speak and dogmatic corruptions.</p>
<p>This from a Los Angles Times Review of Edward Larsons Pulitzer Prize winning book (98) Summer for the Gods about the actual history of the Scopes Trial:</p>
<p>
<a href=“http://www.arn.org/larson/latimes071298.htm[/url]”>http://www.arn.org/larson/latimes071298.htm</a></p>