<p>No offense taken, MomFromTN. In my day job, people call me names all the time, often to my face, and I’ve developed a pretty thick skin.</p>
<p>Once again, is this thread about one person’s arrogant debate skills, or is it about schools we would not want our kids to attend? </p>
<p>I would not want my kids to attend a school that doesnt have a good career placement program.</p>
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<p>Ok, a super-elite STEM-focused high school includes college sophomore level (maybe even a few junior level) courses. Fine with that?</p>
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<p>Northwestern is not a super-elite STEM-focused college*, so it has students who are merely normal grade level in math and science (and who did not attend super-elite high schools that offered them unusually strong preparation in math and science).</p>
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<li>By “super-elite STEM-focused college”, I was referring to two, perhaps three, colleges in the US. Only those colleges can assume that all students are honor students in science and math; no others (including super-selective but not STEM-focused colleges) cannot.</li>
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<p>Or they did not properly choose their freshman year courses. If they had taken the college freshman/sophomore/junior level courses available in that high school, then they should have skipped the freshman level courses at whatever college they attend, rather than retaking freshman level courses and wasting their time. Or attended one of the few super-elite STEM-focused colleges.</p>
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<p>That is not a contradiction to what I wrote. The high school in question is one that can assume students with sufficient motivation and intelligence that it can teach courses at a college-level honors level. Most high schools cannot (and the same is true for most colleges with respect to their freshman level courses).</p>
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<p>Of course, normal high school honors and AP biology courses are not the same as the presumably truly college level honors biology courses found at a super-elite STEM-focused high school.</p>
<p>When I was a kid in NC, my dad wouldn’t even let me apply to Duke because “too many Yankees go to school there.”</p>
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<p>I know that Northwestern is not a “super-elite STEM-focused college,” but its average student is at the 96th percentile in SAT math and its 25th percentile student is at the 92nd percentile, so I rather suspect that the students who “are merely normal grade level in math and science” is pretty small.</p>
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<p>Except that the student whose comment I reported was a science major, and according to her dad, she wasn’t just talking about the entry-level courses. And since she managed to get selected to a very high-level graduate program, I think it’s safe to assume that she took what was at least on paper a challenging science curriculum.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to send my kids anywhere where the other kids and their parents got so wound up over kids statistics that they lost sight of all reason. Or where they cared about measuring exactly how much better or worse a particular high school is in relation to a university.</p>
<p>^Me too, redpoint. I lost interest in this thread when the discussion turned to high school science courses…</p>
<p>redpoint with the post of the thread. :)</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, this was an anecdotal report by one student’s father. And the student was accepted into an MD/PhD program. MD/PhD programs accept only the most competitive of an already very competitive small group. Generalizing about a college’s rigor based on that experience may not really be valid. Though obviously annasdad’s mileage varies from mine 
I would guess many students accepted into MD/PhD programs will be far advanced beyond the norm… at any school. In my opinion, we are talking about students who are setting the curve in all their classes and ready to take graduate level classes, perhaps as freshmen. I am not sure a school that teaches just to that level of student is possible. I think most schools offer out-of-the-norm options for this type student.</p>
<p>^ Point well taken.</p>
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<p>Oh, did all 32 of those kids find their science coursework at NU completely unchallenging, do-it-with-one-hand-tied-behind-their-back? Or are you extrapolating from the one girl who made such a comment? Certainly you realize that as bright as NU’s entering classes are, they can’t assume that all their entrants went to math-and-science high schools of the caliber that Annasdad’s daughter attends, no? </p>
<p>My husband was a science major at NU (biology). I wasn’t a science major, but did have a dual major, one of which was mathematics. Our classes were apparently rigorous enough to get H into med school and me into the corporate world so that we could be able to not sweat finances when it came to sending our kids off to school, so I guess that counts as successful enough in my book. I’m not interested in playing the game of my-classes-were-tougher-than-yours. Obviously tons of NU (and similar school) science majors do just fine in the world, so no worries.</p>
<p>Hey doschicos, you called it :-).</p>
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<p>Well, after all, Northwestern is a so-called “top 20” university, is it not? Many kids from my D’s high school get turned down at Northwestern and other “top 20” universities, so I doubt that the qualifications of those who are accepted are that much different than those of the Northwestern student population at large. As a matter of fact, the middle-50% ACT range of kids from my D’s high school and the middle-50% ACT range of Northwestern are very close (29-34 vs. 31-33).</p>
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<p>Take very bright kids and put them through a so-so program, and many of them will succeed in spite of it.</p>
<p>^
What was your college-aged self thinking?!? I am sending you a virtual butt kick. ;)</p>
<p>annasdad, can’t we move on already?</p>
<p>I did not want my gay child to go to a school I considered not gay-friendly enough. My standards in this regard were higher than his, but he had been pretty sheltered up to that point. His college list was based only on the academic reputation of various departments in his future field. I had about a week of nightmares while he made up his mind to attend a school I considered more gay-friendly. (my gay friendly schools never made it into the final top three he considered, though I insisted he do an admitted students visit to one) He goes to the nightmare producing school for graduate school. He is older. I am calmer.
:)</p>
<p>all my top picks were LACs</p>
<p>ucbalumnus,
"Of course, normal high school honors and AP biology courses are not the same as the presumably truly college level honors biology courses found at a super-elite STEM-focused high school. "
Sorry, my D. went to private prep. HS, the best in a region (not just in our city). Kids were traveling from a different state on a daily basis, some were 1 hr away. Apparently, parents were regarding HS worth spending 2 hours in a car. I do not know anything about super-elite STEM focused HS. My D. was fine all thru college, she continued having her straignt A’s and currently is a Medical Student. However, her first Bio class at state UG that had lots of vbaledictorians from private HS’s (as many Bio classes with good number of pre-meds) was not comparable to HS AP Bio at all. I am talking about kids with 5 on AP exam, who did not have to take first Bio class, but were strongly advised to do so.</p>
<p>For my S, I knew I wouldn’t be supportive if he wanted to go to</p>
<p>-a conservative-religious school, for example one that pushed the idea that being gay is a sin. I do not have a problem with religious schools that are more progressive in nature, or schools, like a Catholic one he applied to, that don’t PUSH anti-gay beliefs onto students. My S is not gay, but we have family, and strongly held beliefs about that.</p>
<p>-a huge school where he wouldn’t have good advising and help if he needed it, without having to work hard to go get that help.</p>
<p>-not crazy about a majority Greek scene but he did apply to one which is about 80% Greek, so I guess it’s not a deal breaker, just something i prefer.</p>
<p>-schools that tolerate hazing, or don’t act strongly against it.</p>
<p>I don’t have any schools to name specifically.</p>
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<p>You’re missing the point, completely. </p>
<p>The point is not that the qualifications of IMSA students who are accepted at NU are appreciably different from those of the NU student population at large (or, again, not to make this NU-centric, substitute any comparable elite school). </p>
<p>The point is that the IMSA kids - or other kids attending similar math-and-science magnet schools – WOULD HAVE HAD EXPOSURE to higher level math and science than the majority of incoming NU science-oriented students, most of whom have gone to public schools where the most they might have gotten is AP Bio and / or AP Chem, geared towards smart-but-not-genius students. (Again, substitute any comparable elite school, with the possible exception of the MIT’s/Caltechs/HMudds.)</p>
<p>It’s a little disingenous – you of the often trotted-out my-local-high-school-has-one-teacher-who-teaches-a-bazillion-science-classes – to all of a sudden pretend that the vast majority of admits to elite schools have had exposure to the kinds of courses an elite math-and-science academy offers.</p>