<p>I notice in business meetings that the old fart guys address the young female engineers as “young lady”, but they wouldn’t dream of addressing the young male engineers as “young man” or “young gentleman”.</p>
<p>Also in this 23-Oct NYT article:
</p>
<p>Am I imagining it, or is “young lady” a patronizing dig?</p>
<p>No, you’re not imagining it. Sure it was in a quote. But then again the journalist selects which quotes are used. </p>
<p>It’s patronizing for sure, but I don’t know that it’s meant as a dig. In the example you give, I bet this was Mr. Johnson’s thought process: </p>
<p>"…for Mr. Harris and his family and for the … girl, NO, I can’t say girl, woman, no that sounds vaguely sexual or maybe old, lady, yeah that’s good, that applies to any human female and it’s kind of chivalrous sounding … young lady and her family…"</p>
<p>I’ve been called “young lady” a few times by elderly male customers. I take it in the spirit intended, a flirtatious compliment.</p>
<p>Yeah, it’s patronizing. If he says “Mr. Harris” he should also say “Ms. Smith” or whatever. </p>
<p>I can’t tell if it’s a dig without context. I think it’s just another representation of our still very patriarchal society. </p>
<p>I must admit it is tough for folks of my dad’s generation to figure out how to work with women who aren’t secretaries. I was the first woman in my law firm who was hired to do anything other than type. They and I were apprehensive but I guess it worked well because they hired 6 women after me. It is awkward for them to figure out how to address us – in person and when they refer to us. </p>
<p>I prefer not to assume a slight was intended because I have never found it useful to go down that path. Engineers my son’s age (recent college grads) seem to work just fine side by side with female colleagues and he was thrilled to have several women in his study group and as research partners.</p>
<p>Having thin skin and taking offense for racist, sexist, agist remarks seems counter productive to me. I politely try to raise the issue if it bothers me, saying, I’d much prefer you call me, “Ms. Litigator” or whatever if I have a preference instead of quietly stewing and being offended.</p>
<p>It’s definitely patronizing but I would rather be called that than old hag.</p>
<p>OP, how do the old farts address the young engineers who are men? If, for example, they take the time to learn the names of the men but not the women, then that’s the real issue.</p>
<p>Agree with EPTR, not nearly as patronizing as “old lady.”
And agree, need better context. Simply describing one as a young lady is the same to me as referring to someone as a “young man.” Addressing someone, rather than names or titles, is another story. Except our much older relatives, who might say, “Young man, would you please help me cross the street.” Whatever. </p>
<p>When I started in biz, my female co-workers objected to “lady” for another reason. They preferred to be called (I couldn’t make this up folks,) “girls.”</p>
<p>Personally, I felt the real proof isn’t in the specific words, but the authority a woman can achieve. If a competent, achieving woman is held back, I don’t care how PC the word choice is.</p>
<p>I think “young lady/man” in an employment context is quite patronizing, although in certain social contexts, it’s probably fine.</p>
<p>It’s impolite in the workplaces I’m familiar with to use language that reflects age-based hierarchy, which is not thought to have any more legitimacy than gender hierarchy. A sort of faux-familiarity of terms (calling everyone by first name regardless of rank or role) seems to be common, although it obscures the reality of office hierarchies, and new people should not take the verbal egalitarianism at face value.</p>
<p>I vote “patronizing” in any circumstances, regardless of intent of speaker. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I was attending a technical sales presentation being given by a service contractor. The presenter asked us to identify our discipline and company affiliation. We were all strangers to this guy and he simply addressed us w no descriptive preface. But when he got around to the young females, he had to add “young lady”. </p>
<p>I don’t mind it at all, but I’m from Texas, ha. </p>
<p>THIS I minded: When I was in graduate school, I accompanied my dad (an engineering professor and consultant) to a jobsite visit. A male engineer, not knowing me at all, actually said, “Oh, are you daddy’s little helper?” I enjoyed seeing him turn red when I explained that I was working on my master’s degree in structural engineering.</p>
<p>Another time, I was working with a civil engineer and I told him I needed to ask my supervisor about an issue we were discussing. He said, “Oh, you have to run to daddy to ask for him?” </p>
<p>But those incidents both happened in the 80s, and I can’t recall anything inappropriate in the time since. I am usually the only woman, or one of a couple, at our local engineering association meetings.</p>
<p>I think it’s more patronizing to address someone this way, as opposed to referring to her this way.</p>
<p>I remember a partner meeting where the old farts on the other side of the boardroom table complained as the company rep (a young female engineer) entered the room, “I can’t believe you guys sent a secretary to this meeting!”</p>
<p>Addressing someone as “young man” or “young lady” could seem patronizing for another reason, it’s a common phrase used by parents or older relatives in the midst of scolding a child for wrongdoing or otherwise screwing up. </p>
<p>Reminding someone of their youth by a boss in a workplace context could also reinforce patronizing assumptions on that basis for the same reasons. </p>
<p>And that’s not even bringing gender assumptions into the equation as it is likely to be more patronizing to female employees/colleagues. </p>
<p>Incidentally, only times I’ve noticed “young lady” or “young man” used was by supervisors in their senior years or by younger supervisors known in the firm for being all-round jerks by others before senior management/HR told them to tone themselves down because of complaints from employee, colleagues, and sometimes even their immediate supervisors. </p>
<p>
Yeah, that’s patronizing. I doubt the guy even realized he was doing it.</p>
<p>I can’t recall anyone assuming the female was the secretary since my first week of college, when I mentioned my mother had called from work. Guess some of us bring different frames of reference.</p>
<p>In the early 2000s, I represented a black financial advisor who went up to the bank CEO after a small-group meeting, and the CEO said, “Oh! I thought you worked for the hotel!”</p>
<p>^ I’m cringing.</p>
<p>You know what, though. Young professional women really need to get rid of baby-ish vocal accents/habits. I’m hearing it everywhere among female college students and recent grads under age 30, from the professional newbies to exceedingly accomplished young women. Such speech is not helping their cause. </p>