<p>Oh dear, oh dear. All young pro women? I think not. Since we’re talking about patronizing, please think about how that comes across. </p>
<p>^I agree. Uptalking and vocal fry are particularly annoying affectations among young women. They sound bad outside the peer context. College career centers are even addressing these tics in mock interview workshops.</p>
<p>But they do not all do it, just as other stereotypes don’t apply to all in other groups. I worked it out of my girls before high school. And not all women are secondary to males in the workplace- and it should not be assumed they are. Just as a savvy person doesn’t assume a Black guy in a suit works for the hotel. Sheesh. </p>
<p>I agree some girls speak that way, just as some guys have quirks they should eliminate. But to make it sound like they all do is stereotyping and not, well, not fair. I’m not even talking about some notion of PC.</p>
<p>Not all young women speak that way. There are some that do, however, and if they are otherwise talented, we’ve hired vocal coaches to work with them to eliminate those affectations. Sometimes, they are defensive and not open to correction but generally they are grateful for the training. I make it a point to try and see beyond such issues in interviewing young lawyers. It is a big handicap</p>
<p>One thing I’m not seeing much of anymore is inappropriate use of exclamation points in email. This was a big problem 10 years ago. And the only use of emojis comes from 65-year-old men in senior management trying to come across as accessible. </p>
<p>While shopping today in the grocery aisles I spoke with a woman whose young son (looked preschool age) then asked her “Why did you talk to that old girl?” First time I heard that combination.Well- I’m 61, old, long past girlhood… but my hair isn’t yet gray. Teach your children to not talk to strangers then you do it…, wonder how she explained as I moved on. </p>
<p>I got called “young lady” the other day and it caught me by such surprise since (a) I am not young and (b) I am sure that I am older than whoever said it, that I completely forget where it was. But, that said, its also not too uncommon for people to use “sir” and “m’am” here, and I kinda like “young lady” better than “m’am” which sounds old (even though I am…). Oh well, FWIW. Carry on.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>lol…I can relate. </p>
<p>The tile guy, who was probably at least 10 years younger, used the words “young lady” to me. I can’t remember the exact context. It wasn’t patronizing the way he said it. Living in the south, it’s gonna be either “young lady” or “ma’am”. I think when I’m only hearing ma’am then I can really consider myself over the hill. ;)</p>
<p>That said, I can understand that in the workplace it can be less acceptable. However, there’s often “unprofessional” words used in the work world. The “young lady” example isn’t the only one. I’m not talking about bad stuff, just stuff that wouldn’t pass as being truly professional. </p>
<p>What about calling employees or colleagues by their last names? Men seem to do that more to other men than they do to women. I don’t think a male employee or boss has ever called me by my last name, but many call other men by their last names. Is it wrong for a man to say, “Hey, Miller, Jones, Mary, Smith…can you come into my office?”</p>
<p>I’m wondering what’s wrong with using first name. I can’t stand the terms young girl, m’am, sir either. Particularly m’am, It reminds me of the line “wham bam thank you m’am”.</p>
<p>Say, I didn’t say every single young pro woman has this sad affliction. Rather, it’s widespread. Everywhere. Makes me want to stab ice picks into my ears. And don’t get me started on whatever vocal style Zoe Chase of Planet Money is employing. Am hearing that style in young pro women a lot too. Sounds like coughing up hairballs.</p>
<p>One of nieces has that kind of voice, I hope she changed now but last time I’ve heard she spoke it was certainly annoying and I’m an aunt. None of my kids have that voice but the second one tends to speak too fast when she’s excited, which is another thing we tell her to watch out.</p>
<p>Without reading ahead, yes! As is “young man”.</p>
<p>I REALLY dislike being called “young lady”. I’m 62, look at least that age and I am NOT a young lady, unless the person saying it is much older than I am. However, one of the people who addresses me that way is a friend’s H and I know he likes and respects me and considers it a compliment. So I just inwardly cringe and let it go. As others have said, there are worse things to be called.</p>
<p>That’s a good message, bethievt. At best, it makes most of us inwardly cringe. It’s not the worst thing to be called, but it is always bad. </p>
<p>One of my other favorite forums is bogle heads - like this one, there is a core group of posters who are incredibly patient and generous with their time. One of the core bits of wisdom on that forum is that if you have an “investment guy”, especially if the “guy” is someone you know from church, you are probably being overcharged for bad advice. The skill of recruiting customers who will trust you enough to pay you for investment advice/management is different from the skill of managing money well. I go off on that tangent to say that the worst offender in my life with the use of “young lady” is a 60-ish guy from church who is in the wealth management business. He will never see a dollar of mine.</p>
<p>I’m also from the South and don’t think ma’am and young lady are the same thing. To me, ma’am is polite, and young lady is condescending … and certainly in a work setting. If someone addresses the men by their names and the women by young lady, that would be a problem for me.</p>
<p>Depending on how/where/when its said, I think some are just ill informed (aka ignorant) and think they are being kind or complimentary, not condescending. </p>
<p>I agree that they don’t realize how condescending it is, but it’s still condescending.</p>
<p>Sometimes I cut idiots some slack, for being idiots. Not often, but sometimes.</p>
<p>When it comes to things like racism and sexism, I cut people some slack if they are old enough to be dead. Anyone baby-boom or younger (and this means almost everyone with a job), I do not cut them any slack. It doesn’t matter that they might be 65 years old. They’re still young enough that they should have been paying attention when the 60s and 70s happened. </p>
<p>Now that I’ve aged out of cat-calls on the street, a huge relief, I get called “young lady” by men my age (58) and older. . For a while, I thought I must not be acting dignified enough. Then it occurred to me this is may be the old lady equivalent of cat-calls. And I don’t care for it one bit.</p>
<p>alh, I agree. “Older” workers are expected to learn many new things - email and smartphones and cloud storage and online expense reports and skinny pants and where the new headquarters building is. They can also learn that some of their old social habits have no place in the workplace. </p>
<p>Also, as above, GRITS (girls raised in the south) have no problem with ma’am, it is a term of respect. Mostly used completely without irony.</p>