<p>CGM Posts: And nope no appologizes unless you appologize for calling me a liar we can call it even i suppose"</p>
<p>Not even at all. You actually did lie. Demonstrably. Whereas I, also demonstrably, never posted what you attributed to me.</p>
<p>I did not.</p>
<p>You posted all the parts, I put them together does not make me a iiar, make you disingenuous</p>
<p>But I am done</p>
<p>You stated (see post 231) that according to zoosermom most Palestinians are terrorists. That is a flat-out lie. I also was very clear with my opinions, repeatedly. No disingenuous involved. You’re just not used to being called out on your rhetorical overkill.</p>
<p>I am done now, but I won’t forget that you are a poster with no credibility.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, these days many people throw around the term “terrorist” when what they really mean by terrorist is anyone willing to use force to resist US or Israeli occupation. Note that Iraqi insurgents are invariably referred to as “terrorists” even when their targets are occupying Coalition forces, not civilians. Likewise, Palestinians who resist Israeli occupation by force are terrorists. It has become nothing more than a political term meaning “those who fight against us.” </p>
<p>I don’t consider Hamas’s or Hezbollah’s killing and capture of Israeli troops to be terrorism. Yes, they are acts of war, but not acts of terror. Israeli and Hezbollah bombardment of cities, however, IS terrorism.</p>
<p>If we can’t draw distinctions between acts of war and acts of terror, then we might as well call George Washington and the Continental Army terrorists. After all, the British did.</p>
<p>
What ignorant, disgusting crap! I use “terrorist” to describe anyone willing to murder civilians who are going about their daily lives.</p>
<p>Driver posted: “What ignorant, disgusting crap! I use “terrorist” to describe anyone willing to murder civilians who are going about their daily lives.”</p>
<p>Me too. I didn’t use the term terrorist because THIS is how I define it and I did not intend that word.</p>
<p>Driver, do you imagine that characterizing my comment as “ignorant, disgusting crap” in any way detracts from the essential truth that the word “terrorist” is bandied about rather loosely these days? LMAO.</p>
<p>Laugh off whatever part of your body suits you…my comment, directed to a very specific, quoted comment by you, stands.</p>
<p>sw wrote: “I don’t consider Hamas’s or Hezbollah’s killing and capture of Israeli troops to be terrorism.”</p>
<p>driver wrote: “I use “terrorist” to describe anyone willing to murder civilians who are going about their daily lives.”</p>
<p>There’s no contradiction here; you two seem to agree on this point.</p>
<p>driver…so if Israel drops a bomb on an innocent person it is killing, if anyone who disagrees with Isreal does, it is murder</p>
<p>Where do you draw the distinction between murder and plain ole’ killing</p>
<p>These deaths, over 300, are not accidental, these are not people placed to guard a depot, these are people just taking grandma home…do you think they are able to be as discerning as you are between the word murder and kill?</p>
<p>They are, gosh, collateral damage…if it was your child, I am not so sure you would be so gracious</p>
<p>If your son was in Lebanon, studying, and was killed, i am sure you would say, hey its okay…</p>
<p>"“I use “terrorist” to describe anyone willing to murder civilians who are going about their daily lives.”</p>
<p>If “terrorists” are those who wish to exert their political wills through massively and deliberately raining terror on civilian populations, I can’t see how Israel cannot be classed a “terrorist nation”. Unless, like the other terrorists, the reason for the terror is neither of them can get their foreign-made missiles to shoot straight.</p>
<p>When you bomb an airport, and housing developments, and vehicles containing women and children, are you doing it for reasons other than terrorizing?</p>
<p>It’s political cant - and if you go to tvs and radios in the Arab world, the coverage looks just like here, only any time you hear the world Iran, you just replace it with the U.S.</p>
<p>If the arabs layed down their arms there would be no more violence
If the israelies layed down their arms there would be no more israel</p>
<p>To say that israel has no rite to do what it is now doing is simply a new form of anti-semitism it is the unrecognition of israel’s rite to self defense</p>
<p>Let me ask you mimi and whoever else is against Israel’s current anti-terror offensive. What should have israel done. What should they have done after watching their children be kidnapped and slaughtered. Israel has tried everything for peace and it is always rejected. In 2000 Ehud barak offered the palestinian arabs gaza, 90% of the west bank, and even east jerusalem…the heart and soul of the jewish land. He was willing to give to the arabs the city that jews pray to and glorify all for peace. He only stopped short of the rite of return and yet the arabs rejected this tremendous peace offering and instead declared another intifadah and murdered israeli children eating pizza, dancing at a nite club, they broke into homes and killed babies in their cribs, they blew up the elderly praying, they blew up families enjoying a passover meal. They shot a little baby in the head who was simply lying in her carriage. Yet again Israel tries to get peace and so it decides to leave and expell every jew from the gaza strip. Even jewish cemeteries were dug up so those scum could not desecrate them. Instead of taking gaza and using the greenhouses and agricultural infrastructure to build a country, the arabs rallied around hamas who "drove the israelies out of gaza"and increased their terror. The ball was in their court but instead of making peace out of the land given to them they made rockets and bombs and barraged Sderot, an israeli city, daily. Instead of reaching out towards israel they elected hamas, a terrorist orginization, to run their country. So please tell me what is Israel supposed to do when rockets land in Sderot every day, damaging homes and schools, killing and injuring jews. What is is Israel supposed to do when two of their soldiers are killed and one kidnapped, not in gaza, not in the so-called “occupied terretories” but in “Israel proper”. What is Israel supposed to do to answer the cries of the parents of 19 yrd old kid who got kidnapped because he was jewish. What is Israel supposed to do when terrorists in Judea and Samaria kidnapp and murder in cold blood an Israeli teenager who was studying in yeshiva. What does Israel do when from the north terrorists kill 8 soldiers and kidnap 2 of them, and barrage Israeli towns, killing a woman enjoying her morning coffee on her balcony, killing a grandmother and her grandson. Please mimi or whoever, tell me WHAT DOES ISRAEL DO. HOW DOES IT RESPOND.</p>
<p>Sorry zoosermom, I got confused with all your talk about nonpeacelovingnonmoderateterrorvotingradicalPalestinians- so guess the non peace loving part you didn’t mean, the radial part you didn’t mean, the non moderate part you didn’t mean…</p>
<p>So if I am understanding you, the only terrorist are the ones that do the killing themselves, NOT the ones who perchance support them financially, with intelligence, etc. I am not now talking about Lebanon, but in general terms. </p>
<p>So, here is a question, if you vote to support a group you say is violent, etc, what does that make you, in your mind? </p>
<p>calling someone a liar for studying the words you used and throwing them back at you…wow…</p>
<p>CGM:
Does Hezbollah have weapons depots in areas where there is no civilian population? Or are their missiles kept in residential areas?</p>
<p>Mini:
I believe that you would propose the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Given that premise there is really no justification for Israeli self-defense. So though you may object to Israeli tactics, what you really hope for is for Israel to be replaced by Palestine. Am I correct?</p>
<p>I don’t know, sorry I am not privvy to that information, but I would assume Israel is. The point is, the willingness to kill innocent people to further ones own goals, whatever those goals may be. </p>
<p>When you have 300plus killed, tourists, etc., not ALL of them are sitting on targeted sites, so they are that lovely word, collateral damage</p>
<p>This is a mess…it has been a mess…so let us see, Isreal destroys stuff in Lebanon, bombing the country back decades in its infrastructure…and nothing will change</p>
<p>We will give Israel billions of dollars (that in turn support our military complex) the countries around them will be rearmed as well, and off we go again</p>
<p>And what have we gained</p>
<p>
I think that Israel believes that the weapons are integrated into civilian areas. I think almost all other observers believe that to be the case. The willingness to kill innocents to further ones own cause… do you mean placing long range missiles in homes? How is Israel to defend herself? Or don’t you care?</p>
<p>Israel has its first responsibility to jews…and if to safegaurd jews some arabs will die as part of collatoral damage so be it…but only a moral degenerate can compare the intentional murder of jews to the unintential killings of innocent arabs especially when these arabs were mixed into with the terrorists. ANd i am still waiting for a response to the question as to what Israel should have done. You people can only blast Israel for what i did do, but can you offer an alternatives that will safeguard the lives of jews</p>
<p>From the International Red Cross:</p>
<p>The ICRC reminds the parties to the conflict that the obligation to distinguish between civilians and civilian objects, on the one hand, and military objectives, on the other, is at the core of international humanitarian law and must be complied with at all times. It further reminds the parties of their obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in all military operations so as to prevent unnecessary suffering among the civilian population. All necessary precautions must be taken to spare civilian life and objects and to ensure that the wounded have access to medical facilities.</p>
<p>Geneva (ICRC) - One week after the start of the latest armed hostilities in Lebanon, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is extremely concerned about the grave consequences that military action is still having on the civilian population. Hundreds of civilians have been killed or wounded, and it remains difficult to organize medical evacuations and to maintain health services. All across the country, large numbers of people are fleeing the conflict zones in dangerous circumstances. There has also been widespread destruction of public infrastructure.</p>
<p>Both sides are attacking civilian targets…to think that either side is not doing it is absurd…</p>
<p>Twenty-one Lebanese civilians were killed and 30 others wounded in raids on the village of Srifa near the southern port city of Tyre, where 13 houses in the Najdi quarter were destroyed, security sources said. </p>
<p>Four civilians were killed when Israeli warplanes struck three cars loaded with evacuees from Aitaroun, leaving several others wounded.</p>