<p>I am actively involved in a group promoting conflict resolution through dialog with a focus on Palestine/Israel/Middle Eastern issues. As a community outreach program, I am planning to hold a college application/admission workshop for parents/students at a local Mosque. </p>
<p>The audience will have a large portion of immigrant parents (from Middle East) and their American born children. </p>
<p>Outside CC, even parents who are born and raised here are blind to all sort of issues and games being played regarding admission into top colleges. I was! I will bet a lot of first generation immigrant parents could benefit from this workshop. </p>
<p>All the knowledge I gained through S1’s process and the early preparation for S2 will come in handy. But, I am not really very familiar with specific issues regarding Muslim applicants.</p>
<p>For instance, are Muslim children, especially children of first generation Muslim immigrants, considered URM??? For essays, if they focus on the cross cultural aspects as a child of a first generation Muslim immigrant, it is a story told so many times, that it is a cliche?</p>
<p>What angle should this particular group of applicants look for? </p>
<p>Are there universities/colleges where these kids may end up feeling uncomfortable? For instance, in my mind, any campus where a lot of people believe Obama is a secret Muslim is not the kind of place where “real Muslims” should be comfortable…</p>
<p>Any thoughts and input will be appreciated.</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that " games are being played " to single out Muslim applicants and deny them admission because of their religeon ?
Why do you feel that they need an angle ? Are we talking about less than stellar students that should be considered above stronger, non-Muslim applicants , because they may be considered URM ?
I was under the impression that anyone who believed that Obama is a secret Muslim was pretty much extreme , right wing republicans , not most college students.</p>
<p>Maybe I misunderstood your post, but this does not sound like a conflict resolution , but stirring up more conflict.</p>
<p>you misunderstood me. By “games being played”, I mean, college admission strategy games, as in which schools “rewards” ED with much better admission changes, which schools weighs student’s class rankings (like U Penn), which schools employs “tufts syndrome”, etc…</p>
<p>Regarding, URM status, if some students with an URM status benefit from being considered to be in that group, and if being a Muslim, first generation student puts a student in that category, why shouldn’t they benefit from that positioning? It’s just like being an athlete. If that status gives advantage, why shouldn’t a student build an application package with that “angle”? </p>
<p>I am talking about any angle their application can be packaged in to catch the attention of the admission officers and let them stand out even a tiny bit to maximum advantage. CC parent forum discussion is full of strategy sharing with this kind of angle. I am trying to help my audience to play this college admission game as well as they could. Nothing wrong with this!!!</p>
<p>Regarding a comfort index as a Muslim students, I think this is a legitimate issue. There is a thread now on this board about Jewish students comfort zone. Jews are very empowered, well integrated group in USA. If they feel that the discussion is a legitimate, fair one, it’s even more relevant for the Muslim students in terms of being aware which school environment will provide more comfortable experience. If you believe most college kids are entirely bias free against Muslim students, you are way to idealistic and naive!!!</p>
<p>I think that lje did not carefully read the OP’s post; she is helping out a group of people in her community with the college admissions process; very noble project I might add…</p>
<p>I don’t have detailed knowledge, but I suspect not all Muslims are considered equal for affirmative-action purposes. African-American Muslims will be African-Americans. My son had a couple of African-American Muslim classmates who did very well in the college admissions process. Pakistanis and Indian Muslims probably register as South Asians, i.e., over-represented minorities. Iranians, too. Palestinians and other Middle Eastern Muslims aren’t going to count in any of the categories that get reported as “minorities”, but it would surprise me if selective colleges weren’t somewhat interested in increasing their representation on campus.</p>
<p>I also suspect that there are few stories that don’t come across to college admissions personnel as cliches. “I reconciled my Muslim faith with modern, secular American education” will be something of a cliche. But it could still be pretty effective. More effective would be an essay that displayed the reconciliation without talking about it explicitly.</p>
<p>I have not heard “recently” of admissions preference given on the basis of the religion of the applicant. [In the bad “old days” the Ivy’s use to be pretty blatant regarding how many Jews they would accept] Is there even a place on the common app that asks about religion?</p>
<p>who knows, really. colleges state that they don’t judge you based on religion…</p>
<p>if we go by that, then indians/pakistanis are pooled into the overrepped minorities, and don’t get any special recruitment or advantage. in fact, they are at a disadvantage, i believe. </p>
<p>however, something still tells me that if you are a muslim girl, for example, (sorta rare) then you might have an advantage of sorts just because you are a little more unique than the average applicant. You gotta be well qualified for the school on your own, though!!</p>
<p>I don’t think being muslim counts as being an underrepresented minority, but if the kids are particularly religious or their religious experiences are very important to them, that could make an interesting essay topic. Though being the child of an immigrant parent probably gives you enough material for any kind of essay. </p>
<p>Also, remember as someone said earlier that all Muslim children and families will not be the same because they share the same religion. They may be Arab, African, south asian, or European muslims, from Southeast Asia or Eastern Europe. Where a family is from will probably have a lot more effect on their questions and concerns than their religion. And chances are they have the same questions as parents do at every college forum. </p>
<p>A few things the parents will probably have questions about how to find out if schools have helal dining halls or at least offer helal food. Both parents and kids may want to know about how to connect with Muslim student groups on campus. If the kids pray, they may want to know how they can work prayer into their college schedules. You should tell them to see if colleges have an imam as part of the religious services staff. If not, they should ask the dean of religous life or whoever runs the school’s religious services (if there are any) where Muslim students go for Friday prayers. Can students eat late in the dining halls during Ramadan? </p>
<p>Even if you don’t know the answers to these questions, they will be helpful things for you to suggest that parents and students ask when they go on college visits. Counseling them to see if they can email the college’s muslim student organization and see if they can sleep over or meet with Muslim students or at least correspond with them, might be a good idea too. </p>
<p>Have you thought about reaching out to a Muslim student group at a local college and seeing if they can send a few volunteers to answer questions?</p>
<p>I have no knowledge to help - just wanted to show my support for Hyeonjlee! :)This sounds like a great project that will help people who aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of college admissions.</p>
<p>I would think it is very important to figure out what schools your child would be comfortable at. I don’t think being a Muslim would be an issue unless your child is wearing a full beard or a head covering. Otherwise, unless they make an issue of it, who would know? I don’t recall one single person asking me what my religion was during college, whose business is it anyways?</p>
<p>I don’t know of any colleges that would give preferential treatment to someone because of religion, except for Yale, perhaps…didn’t they accept the Taliban spokesman a couple years ago? Otherwise, unless your child is trying to get into a school that caters to a specific religion, I don’t think it would be something you’d mention, for any religion.</p>
<p>busdriver – I think that lots of students reveal their religion in some way in their college applications because they attend high schools of a certain religion or because they participate in EC activities that are tied to religion. My children’s religion was certainly evident in their college applications because of their EC’s and the meaning those EC’s had in their lives. I would think that for a religious group that, rightly or wrongly, perceives that its children might not be received with open arms at American universities, the issue of how their religion will affect admissions decisions will not be insignificant.</p>
<p>" What angle should this particular group of applicants look for? "</p>
<p>How should their angle differ from that of any other applicant ? </p>
<p>I just want to clarify, based on your original post if you think these young people should receive preferential treatment , based on them being Muslim, or being children of immigrants as opposed to other applicants ?</p>
<p>" For instance, in my mind, any campus where a lot of people believe Obama is a secret Muslim is not the kind of place where “real Muslims” should be comfortable " </p>
<p>I want to know what you mean by " real Muslims " and maybe I am naiive , but please enlighten me as to what college campus in this country, outside of a very conservative Christian or Jewish one do you think would have a large population of people who believe that Obama is a " secret Muslim "
You could probably go back to the political threads about a yr ago and see that the general opinion is that that theory is pretty laughable and not too many people fell for it, LEAST of all any students posting…</p>
<p>CC-you’re probably right. I suppose the child might want to weigh how it would affect them if they decide to reveal their religion. Certainly if their EC’s are church based, there would be no hiding it. Some of the colleges my son applied to, he was extremely careful to not imply any sort of religious preference whatsoever in the possibility that it could hurt his application (west coast public college-probably due to an abundance of paranoia we decided it was better not to even suggest any religiousity).</p>
<p>I would think that if my family was Muslim, I probably would be very careful and it would be tough to avoid generalizations-i.e. religious or conservative campuses might not be welcoming to Muslims, very liberal colleges might welcome anyone who is a non-Christian. Then again, if people get to know a positive role model , what an excellent way to introduce people to different faiths. Though I don’t know if I’d want my child to be the ambassador.</p>
<p>I’ve never heard of Muslims being considered URMs. Why would they be? Being Muslim does not mean that a person belongs to a particular ethnic group. A person could be Irish and Muslim.</p>
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<p>Very true…I know that when DS1 was applying to an elite honors program, I was concerned that the college (southern) might “judge” him because he went to a Catholic high school. Later, I found out the program director went to a Catholic university.</p>
<p>I think it’s great that you’re providing much-needed information to immigrant parents. I work with immigrants and my experience has been that I do great when I teach them about things I really know about. </p>
<p>When I try to speculate about what they need to know because they are a particular religion, ethnic group or culture, I usually get it wrong, because within each group there are so many differences. Within the muslim community there will be wide differences in education level of parents, income, and the type of college that their child is interested in.</p>
<p>I would suggest sticking with the application process and strategies that you know. You are a pro just because of your experience with your own child, and all you’ve learned on CC and elsewhere, and have much to offer.</p>
<p>Lje–there was a poll that said that 1/3 of Texans believed Obama to be a secret Muslim. Given that, if I were a Muslim parent, I’d want to know that before sending my kid off to a school there. That might not be something an immigrant parent might know about.</p>
<p>you are turning this thread into a political/ideological debate. the purpose of this thread is to get input from the CC parents community that will help immigrant Muslim parents and their children come up with a best college application strategy so that the kids gain admission into the best schools and universities they can get in. It’s no different from, say, HS athletes and their parents who want to come with a best strategy where the kids have the best odds of getting into a top program on the strength of being an athlete (for instance at U Chicago, this won’t fly, but in others it may make a huge difference, etc). </p>
<p>I am just trying to see where there is a college admission advantage for being a child of immigrant muslim parents, hence the question on whether children of immigrant Muslim parents can be considered URM. If there is an advantage, then sure, they should have that as part of their admission strategy, since it may allow them to shoot for little higher and perhaps may count on a bit more advantageous financial aid deal. </p>
<p>My example of people believing Obama to be a secret Muslim was just an example of not so positive attitudes of some people regarding Muslims (don’t tell me there is no anti Muslim prejudice in some places/among some people this country currently): if you are a member of a minority group which is routinely profiled and stereotyped, it’s legitimate to consider the general atmosphere and attitudes on the campus when one is deciding which college/university to attend. For instance, I won’t recommend a college with students who are predominantly fundamentalist white Christians from small rural towns to my kids, who are half Asian and have been raised as Jews - the odds are, they won’t feel very comfortable there, even if there is no overt bias. </p>
<p>Whether Muslim kids should or should not get any advantage is an entirely different subject matter. So, please help us have a directed discussion on this thread according to the original intent of the thread. If you want to discuss the political/idealogical implication based on religion (Muslim or not), start another thread of your own. This thread is not the right forum for you.</p>
<p>hyeonjlee, If you substitute the phrase “immigrant Christian parent”, I hope you will understand what some posters are trying to say- the RELIGION of the immigrants has nothing to do with the URM [ which stands for underrepresented RACIAL minority] status of a student. An African Muslim applicant is not treated any differently by college admissions committees than an African Christian applicant.</p>
<p>" Any thoughts and input will be appreciated. " </p>
<p>" This thread is not the right forum for you. "</p>
<p>Do you see the conflicting message you are sending ? I will give you credit for trying to help with the college application process , but can you not accept questions that might oppose your original intent ?</p>
<p>Or if it is a cookie and pat on the back you are seeking then have one on me…whose one child is of an immigrant parent</p>