It's that time for 2013 class --need help expanding BFA list

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
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<p>After a couple of years of reading about other people’s issues, it’s a little scary to think that the Class of 13 parents and kids are soon to go through this. I’m not ready for this!</p>

<p>I suppose I should be ready since my daughter has known this is what she’s wanted to do since 7. We’re fortunate to live near enough to NYC that my daughter has gotten a chance to get quite a bit of exposure to the business and all that has done is convinced her even more that this is what she wants to do and the ONLY thing she wants to do.</p>

<p>Until a few weeks ago, her plan was fairly simple. She was going to apply to the top BFA conservatory programs – Julliard, CMU, Purchase, Rutgers, BU, NCSA and probably NYU-Tisch (she’d rather be more in the studio than the classroom). If she did not get into any, her plan was to pursue one of the better non-college training programs in NY – Circle in the Square, William Esper Studio, etc. For better or worse, she’s gotten enough of a taste of this that doing anything else but acting just isn’t in the equation at this point. The thought process at the time was that dropping below the top schools was possibly compromising the quality of her training and she didn’t want to do that. She wants to stay “reasonably” close to home so that has ruled out Depaul, UM-Guthrie and Cal Arts, which all would fit her general criteria. </p>

<p>When I talked to her again a couple of weeks ago if this was still the way she wanted to go, it really sort of hit us both as we talked that going at this outside of a college program may be fine from an artistic development standpoint but she is not really ready from a personal/maturity standpoint to do so. We both think now she really needs that 4 year transitional college phase to work on developing herself as well as her craft.</p>

<p>She’s never going to be happy in a B.A. program so that is just not an option. So the question we find ourselves exploring is what are the next level down BFA programs that we should be looking at to expand our search. To date, we really haven’t given any thought to these. If we take Evansville as about the furthest out geographically from New York she’d consider, the list I’ve come up with just from reviewing some of threads include:</p>

<p>Syracuse
Evansville
Otterbein
Ithaca
Emerson </p>

<p>She’s not motivated much one way or the other by rural versus city or by the campus scenery. Her favorite program she visited so far was Purchase because she loved the seriousness and intensity of the program. She’s got a good sense of what she can do and where she needs to grow artistically so her big issue is being at place that will most challenge her to develop.</p>

<p>So what are folks thoughts about the schools above or what other ones should we consider with the most important criteria being small conservatory style program with professional quality training? Thanks.</p>

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<p>If your daughter wants to remain in the Northeast, she can also consider Montclair State, Pace, University of the Arts, Hartt, Pace, and Point Park. They are all conservatory BFA programs with varying degrees of selectivity. I’ve heard good things about Muhlenberg and Elon, also.</p>

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<p>I’d put Adelphi on the list of auditioned BFAs, too. My D is finishing a very rewarding first year there. Small conservatory-style program with professional training, for sure. There are liberal arts requirements, but students have lots of options as to how intense they want to be outside of theatre. </p>

<p>Some of her peers also auditioned at CW Post/Long Island University and had good things to say, but I personally don’t know anything about that school.</p>

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<p>I haven’t posted much about this yet because their official information is not out and the website isn’t updated yet. But St. Edward’s University where my D is attending, which is a very good serious BA program, is adding a BFA in performance. I am not sure yet if it will be audition for BFA before you start or if it will be a BA to BFA audition and I don’t know if the numbers will be capped, or what. Which is why I haven’t said much about it. But as soon as I know, I will. This is straight performance, not MT, though they do musicals.</p>

<p>My D has loved her first year there; they have started doing a Freshman showcase at the end of the year (two actors in a scene, all the performance majors) Every one of those kids were quite good - they are definitely teaching them how to act there. Also it is one of less than a handful of Equity undergrad programs in the country - Equity can be a double edged sword but it is an option open to their students when they graduate.</p>

<p>Possibly if you call them they will have all the details. All I know for sure is they are definitely adding it - but just performance - everything else is still a BA, but as I said, a very good BA.</p>

<p>Of course, this is way down here in sunny Texas, so it’s not for people wanting to stay close to the East coast. But it might be of interest to some. And it’s not a conservatory program, but the BFA is like most of them, heavily weighted towards the concentration, and it is a small intimate program with lots of personal attention and good training. Just in case she thinks about going further out. ;)</p>

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<p>Sunny Texas is fortunately what I’m going to end up with, so of course, I am really digging the idea of St. Edward’s! It’s also in Austin, which is a pretty cool place. Your D sounds like she’s having a great time at the school, in addition! :)</p>

<p>Is the BFA program slated for 2013?</p>

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<p>ActingDad, all I can say is that it is good idea for her to have a large list. The process is in some ways very different from the actual ‘business.’ Each school is looking for something quite specific - a combination of talent, type, look - and it differs from year to year and program to program. A lot of that is chance. I would also really encourage her to apply early. Not scientific, but I believe your chances are higher if you audition earlier. Also, do not choose a slot close to lunch or close to the end of the day. There are proven psychological factors involved here–the auditors are human, after all, and get tired and hungry.</p>

<p>Finally, young people change their minds a great deal as the year goes on. All my children were ‘certain’ they wanted this or that requirement going into their senior year, and all my children changed their minds. Two of my kids were really, really certain. For instance, my D is going to Northwestern. She almost didn’t even apply because she was ‘certain’ she ‘didn’t want to go so far.’ Now that she’s a year older and more mature, she’s thrilled with her choice.</p>

<p>So I would actually encourage your D to expand her options to great BFA programs not close to the East Coast, such as Guthrie & Texas State (among many others). It never hurts to apply and audition. Worse case scenario is that has the good fortune to be accepted and can then visit and think about the choice; but she will certainly not be accepted if she doesn’t apply.</p>

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<p>We never investigated the two schools very thoroughly, but is there a reason you have Syracuse on your list and not Ithaca? </p>

<p>I’ve noticed that a number of Philadelphia-area theatre professionals have Ithaca credentials, and my son got to know an Ithaca student in a Shakespeare program he did in Massachusetts last summer.</p>

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<p>Ithaca is on the list but if the OP is looking for safe schools or easier school I don’t really think these are any less risky. I wish!</p>

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<p>My daughter has been pretty certain about what she wants for a long time so I don’t expect any changes as to what she is looking for with respect to a BFA school.</p>

<p>Obviously, with the small acceptance numbers, getting into any one school is a long shot. However, she has an informed basis for believing she should be very competitive at the top schools, which I’d rather not go into as I would like this thread to be about what are the “next level” of BFA schools in the east with respect to quality. </p>

<p>In response to Connections, I do understand that this is different than the business. She has peers right now who are doing much better these days in getting work but most are 5’0" or less and can play 13-14. My daughter is now 5’10," and while its frustrating, everyone in the business tells her that her looks and height will, if anything, help her in this next process. </p>

<p>So I’d like to leave out of this whether or not people think she is making the right or wrong choice by only applying to fairly selective schools. What I’d really like to know is who do people think offer the best quality of training after the top handful in the East. If your kid’s criteria was ONLY the highest quality conservatory training, which one would you pick after CMU, Julliard, BU, Rutgers, NCSA & Tisch? with Evansville, IN being the furthest geographic point away from New Jersey.</p>

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<p>DePaul is a serious conservatory that eliminated their cut program this year. Chicago is very much like NYC with lots of opportunities. To reiterate what connections said though, regardless of how talented your d is, if they have several 5’10’ girls who look like her in the program, it will be very hard to get a spot in the freshman class at that school. Conservatories (with the exception of NYU) are generally small so they need to balance their cast pool across grades. I assume she is straight acting since only CMU has a specific MT track on your list. Also, UMich acting program has become stronger after living in the shadow of MT for a long time.</p>

<p>If you have the chance this summer to visit some of those Midwest Schools–DePaul, UMinn, UMich and Evansville, it would be great. If she is lucky enough to be admitted to several schools, it will boil down to accepting the one with the right “vibe” that fits her. She might also feel like it would be okay to be farther from her family. All of the schools on your list have a very different feel despite what they look like on paper or have a reputation for.</p>

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<p>Thanks abtsmom. I am working on getting her to consider further away but unfortunately she might not be my toughest sell on geography!</p>

<p>My daughter does sing and loves musical theater but it’s not a skill that comes as easily to her has acting does. She takes voice lesson from a NYC voice teacher who has been on Broadway and has students on Broadway. He thinks she has potential but his praise is almost always reserved for her gift for acting a song and not singing it! </p>

<p>It would be a nice plus for her to be at a place where she could also audition for musicals but I don’t know that it is a big factor.</p>

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<p>I’m working on building up a list as well! I live in North Carolina, so NCSA’s on my list as well as Elon, which is extremely competitive for being in the middle of nowhere. I saw “Crimes of the Heart” at Elon last year and was simply blown away by the quality of their actors.
In regards to schools with higher acceptance rates that still offer well-known, and very competitive BFAs in the NYC area, I’m auditioning for Marymount Manhattan College and Pace University.
I’ve noticed that most people initially look towards the ultra-competitve conservatories with the mindset that the only way to succeed in the business is to attend one. What I’ve learned this year from conducting my own research, surfing CC, and watching my friends go through the process, is that your college experience ultimately is determined by your own attitude. Successful actors have risen from all sorts of levels of training- try and use your resources to find schools that fit your daughter’s needs without regard to their prestige. If a program is dedicated to producing well-prepared and trained actors, they’ll eventually earn their deserved prestige.
So try and be open-minded, auditions for the top programs are extremely subjective! Your daughter’s obviously very passionate and talented, so I’m sure that wherever she ends up, she’ll grow tremendously and make the best of her opportunities. I wish you both the best of luck and I can’t wait to hear how things go!! This process is so daunting!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the post TheaterFish and good luck with your list. </p>

<p>I agree with you that “prestige” by itself should not be the criteria. However, there is generally a reason why some schools are more selective than others. It is usually because they provide better training and opportunities. </p>

<p>Most of the top programs have guaranteed casting for all their shows. They can do that because the classes are small enough and they have the resources to put on shows to cover everyone admitted. Marymount, for example doesn’t, and threads here have discussed that that has been a problem for some.</p>

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<p>Yes, I’ve seen that about Marymount as well! In regards to production opportunities, I know that NCSA doesn’t allow their students to perform until junior and senior year. However, the training they provide is just incredible.</p>

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<p>Actually this year’s freshman class was able to get in on the BFA program so it will certainly be in place next year. It does require more hours than the BA, which is typical. But that’s all I know as of yet.</p>

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<p>Another thing to consider (either now or after getting acceptances) is what the program has to offer and how important those things are individually to her and what things are dealbreakers. Does she want to study Shakespeare/classics intensively? Improv or physical theater? What about circus skills or mask work? Is there a particular method she is drawn to (or hates)? How important is it that she be cast in shows early on? Does she want to be the most experienced in her class (and be cast early) or work with students who have more experience (and have smaller roles initially)? what about study abroad?</p>

<p>When we narrowed down schools my s was actually going to apply to, he wanted a mix but ultimately eliminated some because they didn’t have some elements that were important to him.</p>

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<p>TheatreFish, Coastal Carolina BFA is excellent to my mind. Both my D & I were super impressed with our visit. Dont’ take our word for it though–I’d strongly encourage you (and ActingDad’s D if this is geographically to her liking!) to check it out. Their auditions are on site and all day. A wonderful experience and unique. You can pm me with any particular questions.</p>

<p>Some programs have great reputations but aren’t good for a particular person–only you can know this though. Other schools have rising reputations but are excellent for you–again, only you know. It doesn’t sound as though cost is a factor for you, ActingDad? If it is, make sure to factor that in, as well as the school’s ability to give merit/need aid.</p>

<p>And ActingDad, I realize your D has done professional stuff, but trust me, please. I’ll say it again–the schools are not necessarily looking for the same things a professional show is looking for. Of course I’m sure your D is very talented. But also, type, looks, potential, ease of working with others, balance for the whole–these factors and more go into creating a class, and as I said, each school has a different look and balance, which changes each year. And at 5’10" your D is strikingly tall, which is wonderful and amazing, but it does make her more unique, which can be both good and bad in the ‘type’ department. I’d strongly suggest her to audition early and at many places, about 15-20 (yikes, I know! But if she is committed to a BFA program, this is what I’d recommend). </p>

<p>Also, check out the school’s relationship with the community. We ended up not going to Drew, but it does have a great connection with the NJ Shakespeare Festival. Some schools are far more focused on MT than straight–check that out too. And finally, I’d strongly suggest you visit the schools she is serious about, which shouldn’t be impossible if you’re sticking to the East Coast. For example, my own S disliked Purchase’s isolated location despite its excellent reputation; this is very personal and NOT a reflection of the program at all. But he wouldn’t have known that had we not visited.</p>

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<p>ActingDad, I have to respond to what you said above:</p>

<p>“I agree with you that ‘prestige’ by itself should not be the criteria. However, there is generally a reason why some schools are more selective than others. It is usually because they provide better training and opportunities.”</p>

<p>This is an unending, unanswerable issue, but I would like to remark that:</p>

<p>1) You seem to be saying that selectivity and prestige are two entirely different things; I would argue also that neither one is an absolute indicator of quality. First of all, every auditioned program in theatre is highly selective. None has an acceptance rate better than the top-ranked colleges generally discussed on CC. Also, as with Ivy-League schools, applications are inflated at certain prestigious and more well-known programs - that is just human nature - which increases selectivity but has no real correlation with quality. I strongly believe that the difference between a school that accepts 15% vs 8% in the long run is not significant enough to say that the 15% school is measurably lower in quality. Factors such as prestige (which you already somewhat discount), availability of auditioning (such as Unifieds and multiple audition locations/dates) do inflate selectivity at some schools, and have no reflection on the education they offer.</p>

<p>2) No matter how selective, or prestigious, a school might not be the right school, or even very high quality on an absolute scale. There are very prestigious and very selective schools that are very wrong for many students. Sometimes a prestigious or highly selective theatre school does offer certain opportunities, as with other types of colleges, but there have been many arguments made on this forum that going to a selective school does not guarantee, or perhaps even measurably help, a student in their professional career. No one can answer or predict the future for any given student. There are too many unreliable factors in this equation for selectivity or prestige to predict success, or even happiness. Every student, at any school, is taking a chance, and should choose based on personal taste and their own needs.</p>

<p>3) As with any college choices, quality is a nebulous factor that can only be measured to a certain extent by ranking, and must be decided upon entirely by the individual. Since there aren’t official theatre school rankings, I’ll just say that in regular college ranking, there are so many factors that the difference in quality between, say, a top 10 school vs a top 50 or even 100 school cannot ever be reliably determined. My family and I have a lot of experience with highly and less selective and prestigious and less prestigious colleges and graduate schools, and I have yet to have a clue to the answer to this question, even where rankings exist.</p>

<p>4) I believe that the quality of a theatre program involves many factors - some are somewhat definable, such as the available curriculum, the facilities and to a certain extent the qualifications of the instructors. Some are subjective; for example, in the case of opportunities to perform, many “prestigious” schools do not guarantee or even allow a lot of performing by students, and many schools do not allow students to work professionally while in training - even though there are students who would feel their education would be compromised by limited performing while in college. Who can say who is right? Personal chemistry with teachers and peers is almost impossible to determine in advance and is not guaranteed at all by prestige or selectivity, yet it is often extremely important in how a student responds to their educational environment.</p>

<p>I am all for looking for a quality education. This was a primary goal for me, my husband, and both of my daughters, in college and in graduate school. But I never would have equated quality with prestige and selectivity. I firmly believe that is letting other people and their prejudices and assumptions make your life decisions for you. I also believe strongly that your success in life is what you do with the opportunities you are given, not by the prestige and selectivity of those opportunities.</p>

<p>Thank you for listening. I wish you and your daughter all the best in this exciting and difficult process.</p>

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<p>Great post, Emmybet!</p>

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<p>My son, a Boston University BFA student, recently had an opportunity to attend a play at Adelphi University and was favorably impressed by the production and the program.</p>

<p>He also suggests adding Elon to your list of schools to consider; as I understand it, North Carolina meets your geographic criteria.</p>

<p>Great posts here about individual fit, widening the geographic net, etc.</p>