<p>jym, considering entering the dating arena? then you might say “hey baby, want to see my stamp collection?” because a coupon is a kind of stamp and stamp collectors are called ‘philatelists’ which you must admit has a far sexier ring tone to it.</p>
<p>Funny you should mention that, roro-- I’d originally typed in “stamp collection” but changed it to coupons in light of the content of the thread and the recent posts. That, and sometimes collecting stamps costs money. Collecting coupons doesn’t. And as an aside, I think I’d rather be a numismatist than a philatelist. So I 'll keep collecting those state quarters. Such a big spender I am.</p>
<p>The OP is complaining about 90% of the Americans who have debt, any kind of debt, and 90% of the Americans who cannot pay their bills, regardless of why they can’t pay their bills.</p>
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<p>From his “statistic,” he is assuming that 90% of the people in debt or who can’t pay their bills are people who are overspending. </p>
<p>Tone matters, and the tone in the original post, and even in the thread title, is sneering and self-congratulatory. Self-congratulatory without any real experience in handling adult financial responsibilities, at that.</p>
<p>Sure, some people overspend. Some don’t, and still end up in serious financial straits. Yet, the OP assumes that those who can’t pay their bills or who are in debt (for whatever reason – mortgage, car, education loans) are overspenders.</p>
<p>I’m in debt – I have a mortgage. Thus, according to the OP, I have a 90% chance of being an overspender. Oh, my, the horror, the horror.</p>
<p>The OP should do real research instead of getting his “information” from the Suze Orman show.</p>
<p>owlice-
I think “nine times out of ten” is an expression-- not necessarily a statistic.</p>
<p>saying that 9 out of 10 debt is the consumers " fault" is like saying 9 out of 10 divorces/accidents could be prevented.</p>
<p>It has barely any grounding in reality.</p>
<p>Wages have stagnated while costs have been rising.
Families whose income that covered expenses 20 years ago,couldn’t have foreseen NAFTA and outsourcing of jobs & whole industries. The escalation of housing costs and the increase of companies that subcontract part time workers instead of hiring them full time. ( and lay them off before they are retirement age)</p>
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<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/politics/30cnd-census.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/politics/30cnd-census.html</a>
( note these prices are 10 years out of date)
[High-Income</a> Poverty](<a href=“http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1999/12/poverty.html]High-Income”>High-Income Poverty – Mother Jones)</p>
<p>Retirement is now a luxury and if you are in forced retirement because of job loss or medical issues you are SOL.
[Rising</a> prices hammer seniors on fixed incomes - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2008-07-01-retiree-fixed-income_N.htm]Rising”>http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2008-07-01-retiree-fixed-income_N.htm)</p>
<p>emeraldkity4 just presented a very good set of opposing arguments/points to the op. </p>
<p>I think we can agree or disagree with op’s posts or statements on their merits without disparaging his youth or lack of experience. </p>
<p>IMHO there is no need to slap a 21 year old upside the head (figuratively) for being dogmatic/black & white (if he was) , life will do it soon enough. ;)</p>
<p>Elizabeth Warren is a Harvard law professor who has been studying the collapse of the middle class in the United States. She says the financial difficulties experienced by many families today are not because of extravagant spending, but are instead the result of dramatically rising fixed expenses. </p>
<p>She compared the median US family of 1970 to a family in 2003. Her findings include the following:</p>
<p>–Americans are spending less inflation-adjusted dollars today on food and clothing than they did in 1970.</p>
<p>–Housing costs have increased 76% since 1970.</p>
<p>–Heath insurance costs have increased 74% since 1970.</p>
<p>–Taxes have increased sharply.</p>
<p>Ms. Warren found that these fixed expenses cost a median family three-fourths of a two-earner income, leaving little to no financial cushion in times of crisis.</p>
<p>[America’s</a> middle-class collapse - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review](<a href=“http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/guests/s_576040.html]America’s”>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/guests/s_576040.html)</p>
<p>(Ms. Warren conducted her research in 2003–well before energy and food costs skyrocketed.)</p>
<p>Good point, mapesy. I think this may be one of those threads where everybody is right. There are those who are very careful with their money and still struggle, and there are those who are careless with their money, have lots of excessive or frivolous “stuff” and no financial cushion. I took the OP’s comments to be directed at the latter.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Professor Elizabeth Warren. It’s the fixed expenses from housing and health insurance. Those expenses are not that flexible and not discretionary.</p>
<p>Otoh, I am looking at ourselves and we never made that much money, I was in and out of the work force (sometimes by necessity, sometimes by choice, sometimes forced) :o. My h was laid off for long stretches of time (2 years once, 9 months another) but we managed to do reasonably well. We are lucky we had good health, resides in Canada now with it’s universal health care system (big relief to have a safety net - downside, we pay the higher of both US & Canadian taxes).</p>
<p>One of the main things that we are doing fine nowadays was that we are really good savers, and always spend way beneath our means. I still remember the cockroach infested 1 bedroom in a high crime area (right by a university) we lived in with our 2 babies when we started out. Not that we reco anyone to do the same.</p>
<p>Housing costs are tricky. If you are looking at the average family they should have bought their house around 10 years ago and the payments should be relatively fixed at what today would seem like a great deal. They might also still have many thousands in paper profits depending on location. It’s hard to use a bunch of averages to make an overall conclusion. The people who did not get the itch to move up to the superhome or remortgage are looking good 10 years out.</p>
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<p>I was directing this thread at the people who are careless about their money. This thread was never meant to be who is wrong or right. I was just making observations.</p>
<p>How bad do you think the ecomony will fall before anything changes?</p>
<p>I feel like the prices for everything went up but we still get the same amount of money in our paycheck… </p>
<p>I don’t spend too much, so I conciously find myself cutting out alot of things I used to buy because they were so cheap. I often refuse to buy items for $5 when they used to cost like $2. I just can’t do it but everything these days just seem like its going up.</p>
<p>Does everybody now understand what I was trying to say?</p>