<p>My son wants to apply to one Ivy, just for grins. He understands that, no matter what your stats are, it’s all a crap shoot. But with his competitive stats (2300 SAT, 3.98 uw, good EC’s), he would regret not giving at least one Ivy a shot. So the question is, which is the best fit.</p>
<p>My very general question is, which Ivy fits the following critirea the best:</p>
<li>Quirky/Nerdy kids.</li>
<li>Supportive academic enviroment, but he’s big on a strong core ciriculum.</li>
<li> Pre-Med/Philosophy course of study.</li>
</ol>
<p>I know this is probably too broad a question, but before we make our college visit schedule, I’d just like to get your general impressions. </p>
<p>By the way, the other colleges on his list are Michigan (instate safety), Univesity of Chicago (current first choice) and Carleton.</p>
<p>SBdad–
You need to provide a little more info as to what kind of physical environment your son likes…city, rural, etc. Off the bat, it’s hard to make a good suggestion. Columbia is the ultimate core curriculum Ivy. But, it is, as you know, very urban. Maybe you should PM with Haon, who, I think, is taking a similar course of study at Williams (not a core curriculum school, but great for pre-med and , I think, philosophy).</p>
<p>I often hear Columbia compared to Chicago because of the core curriculum, so since Chicago is current first choice, I would suggest looking at Columbia.</p>
<p>Then I think there is no question. A jazz guy who’s OK with the big city and who wants a core curriculum and wants to apply to an Ivy should be applying to Columbia. That’s where it’s all happening, and there’s the Juilliard connection as well.</p>
<p>Columbia definitely has the CORE of all CORE’s especially in the Ivy League, and there is a huge number of pre-meds here as well. There are quirky/nerdy kids, but I don’t know if you’ll find a lot of them in pre-med. The English and Creative Writing depts seem (at least to me) to be the haunts of the quirky/nerdy set (maybe the Philosophy dept would fill that criterion). Columbia does have a reputation for being a sink-or-swim school which conflicts with your “supportive environment,” but I don’t know how true that is. I think you can find great support if you look, but it won’t come find you.</p>
<p>The truth is that you can find most of the things above at any Ivy, just to a greater or lesser extent. Some places have more quirk than others. Different schools have different music opportunities. The only difference is the core curriculum, which does argue for Columbia. However, if you want academically supportive and not core, that argues for the smaller Ivies, i.e. Darthmouth or Princeton. Columbia is not known for a lot of hand holding - if that was part of the academically supportive criterion.</p>
<p>Other than St. John’s, I think Columbia has the “core of all cores”…period. “Choosing the Right College” calls it “the gem of the nation,” in that regard.</p>
<p>It really confirms what we have found so far. Columbia has the core, but that “sink or swim” reputation give me pause as S is ADHD, and not mildly so. It’s interesting to me that Columbia has the hands off reputation because I have read that it has the smallest undergraduate enrollment of all the Ivies. But maybe that’s because of the strong focus on the graduate schools (?).</p>
<p>Princeton and Dartmouth have the smallest number of undergrads among the Ivies–by a substantial margin–along with a reputation for maintaining a focus on undergraduate education. You’d do well to consider them. It’s always possible for a motivated student to develop his/her own core curriculum; the close contact with professors isn’t always possible.</p>
<p>Columbia’s culture is also because of the campus and location, frankly. My D loved it, and would have had a hard time choosing if she’d been accepted, but the social and academic worlds are more loosely held together than at campus-focused schools. Kids live in apartments, etc. D is now at Princeton - very very supportive. Actually might be really wrong for some kids who like to be left alone. But for those who like a little care and feeding from their institution, or at least like to feel that the institution knows who they are, it’s a good fit.</p>
<p>Princeton however is lower on the quirky scale. The feel there is a little bit more social/corporate, amongst the non-engineer/math kids at least. The artist or leftist kids are somewhat less prevalent than at Harvard and Yale. My personal theory is that the eating clubs cause a self-selection, that kids who like the social fray will be drawn to Princeton over HYS etc. precisely because the clubs exist, whether they finally join them or not. The clubs pose a challenge that is compelling to a certain kind of kid. The other kids who like Princeton are the ones who care not one whit for the social fray, the outright geniuses who just don’t even know it’s going on:).</p>
<p>Please excuse the gross generalizations. I know for everything I have said there is a case in point to contradict my theories. So let’s just say these are humble opinions.</p>
<p>Just so I would be sure about enrollment numbers, I went to the College Board site and got the following numbers for undergraduate enrollment (degree seeking):</p>
<p>Dartmouth 3991
Columbia 4225
Princeton 4710
Yale 5349
Brown 5772
Harvard 6613
Penn 9841
Cornell 13474</p>
<p>I’m looking at Columbia University - Columbia College, so maybe I’m looking at it wrong.?</p>
<p>Alummother, thanks for the Princeton review (haha). That’s very insightful and interesting.</p>
<p>If you want a good fit for quirkiness among the Ivies, I would recommend Brown. (They’re not so good in the core curriculum department, however.) When my S visited Brown, he said, yes, he could see himself there, and he is as quirky as they come. Both my husband and I are alums, and I guess we also fall into that category.</p>
<p>FYI, it just so happens, I have just posted on another thread (the one about US News rankings as junk science) requesting info about Reed because it had been recommended to me as being a good place for “quirky” kids and the article cited in that thread concludes with an allusion to Reed (which has declined to participate in the US News rating system). Reed might be another place to check out, judging from the responses I got to my query (although it’s not an Ivy).</p>
<p>It’s a bit more complicated. There is Columbia College. There is Fu SEAS–School of Engineering and Applied Sciences. It also has undergrads, but if you attend it, you’re not included in the #s for Columbia College. Barnard is across the street. Barnard students don’t have to take the core, but they can and do take Columbia college classes. Then there’s the School of General Studies, which takes adult students who are a bit non-traditional. However, they too take undergraduate courses.</p>
<p>So, the # of undergrads in Columbia College isn’t the same as the # of undergrads in Columbia University.</p>
<p>With his stats, why not look at several Ivies? Cornell is known as a “tough” school, like Chicago, with no grade inflation, but perhaps not as nurturing as you want. If he wants to apply to the Ivies, you really should have him apply to more than one becasue it is such a ----shoot and someone might get into Harvard but not Yale, etc.</p>