Ivy Fit For Quirky Son

<p>Hey. Your son sounds a lot like me when I was hunting last year.
Let’s see, I wanted a core, I wanted a crazy quirky student body, I liked philosophy and science (+ engineering but that’s not a commonality), I was really into music, really into art, had felt really out of place throughout high school… really… and quite terrible at making small talk and kind of disillusioned by the general social context and atmosphere of young people… wanted a really tough curriculum (to be challenged for once), and really wanted as little hand-holding as possible (craving independence), but also didn’t want to go anywhere where grades were considered more important than knowledge and learning.</p>

<p>Sorry if this has already been answered, but how strictly are you defining “Ivy”? Do you mean top school or a member of the Ivy League?</p>

<p>I’ve heard that top schools are more similar than different and I have found that to be false. I’ve also heard, even in this thread, that each quality can be found in each school to a greater or lesser extent (afterall as many attitudes are there are students) but I would caution against taking this too approximately… the “lesser” vs “greater” makes a HUGE difference. There are always prevailing attitudes on campus and I have found some of them to be suffocating.</p>

<p>Chicago seems like a perfect pick for him. That was one of my top choices for school last year as well. As for “Ivy” I would probably recommend Columbia. I think he’s going to love the energy of the campus and the diversity of the student body. Kids are creative, crazy, fast-paced like the environment rubs off on them, generally love the core, have pretty diverse interests, it’s great for premed and other sciences (I was interested in their astrophysics program)… independence is kind of stressed there, like you make your own way in the hustle and bustle of the city and school sort of thing. Yet it was cooperative instead of competitive and I especially valued that.</p>

<p>If the core thing is negotiable I would bet Brown is worth a look as well. I loved the school in every way and its students come in all shapes and sizes. Very laid back, very quirky, it seemed like it’d be great fun going there. Brown, however, is one of those make-your-own-rigor kind of places, you can probably build yourself a very challenging curriculum but you can also breeze. Problem I saw here was that most students would probably lean toward the “breeze” route, and it may be some kind of social anomaly to take on more courses than is required. Brown eventually came off my list because of its comparative weakness in theoretical sciences.</p>

<p>Some colleges I would recommend against considering your son’s preferences: Princeton, Harvard, maybe Penn, maybe Dartmouth (I may not know enough about the last two to give you a solid picture though).</p>

<p>It’s the general personality of those schools. Non-conformity has very little reign in those schools so you end up with a fairly homogeneous student body. Dartmouth is more of a jock-dominated and greek-dominated school, Penn didn’t have as intellectual an atmosphere as I’d have liked (though the students are obviously brilliant). Social elitism is kind of the trademark of Princeton and it is also present at Harvard though to a slightly lesser extent. Princeton’s student body is self-selecting because of the air of pomp that is generally associated with the school so the stereotype self-perpetuates which is a shame. Socially, Harvard offers a very typical college experience. Surprisingly. I mean what do you do with your brilliant future-leaders-of-the-free-world classmates? You get wasted with them on the weekends and dance (grind) to bad rap music in crowded and poorly lit common rooms, of course. Hey, dont get me wrong, that’s a perfectly tolerable form of entertainment once in a (fairly long) while, but I find myself kissing the ground of my own campus after returning from a night out at Harvard. And Harvard has its own form of Princeton’s eating clubs, they’re called final’s clubs and from what I hear they’re kind of demoralizing to get into. Like wait outside in long lines in the Boston cold for some kinda “evaluation”. For some clubs you need a certain ‘look’, for others a certain dollar value… etc etc you get the picture. Harvard’s student body, though, is generally very impressive and has a lot to offer academically. Especially for premed, you can’t get much more choice than that considering its strong bio department and grade inflation. I just have qualms with its social atmosphere.</p>

<p>There’s probably more, but I have class now :)</p>

<p>EDIT: p.s. I go to MIT (as I see some have suggested the school).</p>

1 Like

<p>So my suggestion is to visit all the ivies and mit etc etc.
Why? Because its just as important to experience the decision process. Make the choice to reject or find out more about the school you think feels right. Why take anyones opinion? Its your choice and it costs alot of money and visiting all of the schools is FUN. Getting to know what is out there first hand is interesting. So if you can afford to do it then I say GO GO GO- visit as many as you can get to…and enjoy all of it. You are only 17 once and everyone is quirky. Everyone including those who seem to fit in have their moments. Socializing, going to college and living away is a stretch for everyone!</p>

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Just have to say that I have not heard this from my daughter at Princeton, who has not a whiff of pomp or social elitism about her. The wealthy kids from pomp and circumstance exist but they are not remotely the majority. And I am not just being an advocate here, she actually liked Princeton precisely because the kids were, in her words, “regular”. Not quirky in the majority, agreed, but not remotely pompous. Regular.</p>

<p>Wow, this is such great feedback and I am so, so grateful.</p>

<p>I hope I can give back to this process once I have run through the process.</p>

<p>I’m very intrigued by MIT suggestions. I have to admit that I did not have it on my mental list because I wasn’t sure what it would be like if you wanted to pursue a religion or philosophy major. That probably comes from my oh-so-limited knowledge of the place, believing it was really only for hard core science/math types.</p>

<p>SBDad, just remember to come back and share your trip reports. </p>

<p>By the way, I HAVE looked at MIT’s philosophy department, and it looks intriguing —Also, if you can get a hold of back issues of Discover magazine, about a year and a half or so ago they did a FASCINATING article on the campus culture at MIT. My son (who is also interested in philosophy) read the article and the way MIT students described their lives appealed to him immensely. So, I do think it would be worth a stop when you go to the Northeast.</p>

<p>Found it! Here’s the article:
<a href=“http://www.discover.com/issues/jun-05/features/mit-nerds/[/url]”>http://www.discover.com/issues/jun-05/features/mit-nerds/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This suggestion may be coming from left field, but have you and your son considered St. John’s of Annapolis and Santa Fe? Talk about core! The curriculum is almost all core: the great books make up a huge chunk of the four years; teaching is mostly done in seminars. There are only about 450 students at each campus, and kids can transfer between one and the other. I would hazard a guess that the kids are quirky, to have chosen such an off-beat approach. You can get more of a sense of the school in Loren Pope’s Colleges That Change Lives. Just a thought!</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.stjohnscollege.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.stjohnscollege.edu</a></p>

<p>SBDad - Maybe your son also needs to read “Harvard Shmarvard” (by Jay Matthews) as well as the other books I suggested in my above post (#54)</p>

<p>From what you say about your son, Chicago sounds like the best fit – and for a high-stat kid, Chicago is a match (not a reach) because its reputation is intimidating enough to keep the applicant numbers down and the admit rate fairly reasonable. Your son also sounds very much like a Reedie, but I can see Reed’s reported graduation rates as being somewhat intimidating to a parent who wants some hand-holding. I’d strongly suggest adding it to a list of possibles. </p>

<p>How does your son feel about sports? My guess from everything else you say is that he isn’t much of a jock. I raise this because he really needs to be reminded that the term “Ivy League” refers to the Division 1 sports program that these 8 schools share – not an academic standard. </p>

<p>Anyway - do what you want. I think your son needs to read up on the schools and narrow his focus before he visits. Otherwise, you are using up valuable time that could be spent at colleges that are a much better fit – I mean, why spend a day at Penn when the kid really needs to be checking out Swarthmore? Your son will probably be happier in the long run if he checks out the academic catalogs for his target schools first, then visits at a time when he knows enough about the schools to ask some probing questions.</p>

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I must say this is what I have been thinking is the strategy for this kid. SBDad, I’m thinking you may find that he will find “his people”, as others have commented on this thread, at virtually any school which is an academic fit for him. Whether that school is stereotypically considered Quirky or not. College is so different from hs in how kids are able to find their fit. I’m not saying he belongs in a Greek-heavy preppie school. But virtually any school which will have the academic programs which excite him, and the academic level which fits his strong stats will be a place he will find “fit.” IMHO.</p>

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<p>Oops, I suppose I should blame that on poor phrasing due to my being in a bit of a rush. (I think) What I meant to say was that while it may not be true for the majority of the student body, an air of elitism is what Princeton is colloquially known for. And as a result, the students Princeton attracts are students that could at least tolerate if not thrive in such an environment. That’s what I meant by self-selection and self-perpetuation. If a student really wanted nothing to do with exclusive eating clubs or upper-class money he/she would not choose Princeton as he/she would have found it insufferable. That is, of course, not to say that those matriculating necessarily prefer a stereotypical atmosphere of that sort, just that they don’t mind it and would therefore do nothing to change it.</p>

<p>And to the OP, it’s really a matter of how hard your son wants to work in college. Though it is very much up to the student (and the major), there is a base level of rigor in every institution, and some are considerably higher than others.</p>

<p>And Princeton is the “Southern” Ivy, with all the manners, and traditions that implies.</p>

<p>Pebbles, my theory is that Princeton does attract kids who welcome the social fray - whether they like the eating clubs or want to overthrow them:). And while the clubs do exist, there is no more upper-class money at Princeton than at Yale or Harvard or Stanford, and with Princeton’s financial aid policies there should be absolutely an equal percentage of kids needing aid if not more than at HYS.</p>

<p>“one can find quirky people at ALL of the Ivy schools.”</p>

<p>Thank you for helping us zero in on the particular rather than the general.</p>

<p>Yea, I’m with SBmom on this one. Wesleyan, Brown and Haverford if he has the grades. Dartmouth, if he absolutely needs another Ivy (only because of the skiing and because at >5,000 folk – there are lots of quirky kids there, in the nooks and crannies of the place. Hope this helps.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t visit all the Ivies. From what you’ve described, I’d suggest looking at (in addition to Chicago, which sounds great for him):</p>

<p>Columbia (core,jazz), Brown (quirky, user friendly for ADHD), Wesleyan (quirky, jazz), Swarthmore (quirky, intellectual)</p>

<p>Then, a year after he’s been at college, it would be fun to look back at your list of his characteristics and – no matter where he goes – see how he’s changed!</p>

<p>And you know what? Given that he is apt to find almost all work at these places pretty compelling that AD part may really not play such a role as it does in boring high school.</p>

<p>Given that he is apt to find almost all work at these places pretty compelling that AD part may really not play such a role as it does in boring high school.</p>

<p>I disagree
Someone who is receiving almost 4.00 gpa unweighted is not necessarily * bored* in high school.
Making a class more rigorous- as from high school to college- is not going to all of a sudden make someone organized and focused.
Recieving support for ADD is even more critical in college, because unless you are organized and stay on top of your studies you may get behind too far to feel like you can ever get caught up.
Instead of ADD going away in college- I predict the reverse is true- my own daughter for example wasn’t formally diagnosed till junior year of high school. Several of her friends weren’t diagnosed until college, when the sheer amount of reading and writing demanded more from them than they had, had to cope with before, and sheer intellect couldn’t carry them anymore.
For a student with ADD/ADHD, it is important to have support on campus and for profs to be open to accomodations if needed. You need that information up front. If the school seems unwilling to discuss it beforehand, they likely are not going to be anymore forthcoming after admission.
None of Ds friends with ADD are attending Ivies, but two friends just graduated from Chicago, and I would agree that, that school seems like a good choice ( along w Reed & Brown)</p>

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Just to add to the discussion, my son was accepted at U of Chicago and Columbia, but ended up at Dartmouth, where he has indeed, ‘found his people.’ I now feel that there may be some advantage in a more introverted kid attending a school which is not populated by kids who are the same. He has become more social, which we think is a wonderful change for him. The academics are still challenging, but taking only 3 classes at a time allows him to really focus on them. The quarter system moves quickly, but he doesn’t have time to get bored. I know that Columbia is on a semester system, and kids take 4 or 5 classes at a time. Would that be harder or easier for a kid with ADD?</p>

<p>Great stuff, sjmom2329.</p>

<p>It’s interesting that you bring up the quarter vs. semester issue for ADD kids. Having attended two different colleges myself, one on the quarter system and one on semesters, I am firmly convinced that the quarter system would be much better for DS. Having ADD myself, it was so much easier to “drift” in the semester system and really scramble at the end of term. The quarter system seemed to kick in the “hyper focus” due to the instensity of the class load. Also, less balls to juggle.</p>

<p>Also interesting perspective on the social aspects of Dartmouth.</p>

<p>sjmom made me think: as the mom of several college kids, with varying degrees of quirkiness, all of whom were more interested in academic than social fit than I would have liked during the college search this is a pretty interesting topic to me. In my opinion (and I won’t be hurt if everyone else disagrees) the ivys are more similar than not in terms of campus culture, despite superficial fashion differences, because, again jmho, of the way they “build a class” selecting some athletes, some musicians, some future politicians, some future nobel prize winners, etc … and some quirky kids. I would define quirky in this context as those extremely lopsided, rather obsessed and probably already rather advanced in a particular area of study. Of course these are the quirky kids who weren’t quirky enough to put themselves totally beyond any serious consideration by a competitive college. The most interesting ones probably are doing something completely different. My quirky upperclassman at the non-quirky ivy has within his group of friends students with profiles very similar to his: they came into the school with a long term passion for various unusual (and underpopulated) majors. But within their group are also more of the “well-rounded” sort of students, usually pre-professionals, who enthusiastically search out the all night, all weekend sort of ongoing meaning of life discussions. It seems to me this has had a positive impact on both groups of students. It would be interesting to know how easy it is for the quirky ones to locate each other freshman year. Schools that don’t build a class but look for a particular type of student would be the ones imo which actually do have a different sort of campus culture. I would include MIT and Swat in that list but may be absolutely wrong. Apologies if this is too completely off topic.</p>