<p>perhaps i’m going against the fray, but imho your son should definitely check out Dartmouth (amazing undergrad) & YALE (strong pre-med + music up the wazoo)! every single kid i know going to these schools IS Quirky!</p>
<p>Wow, what this thread has taught me is that we should tour most, if not all, the Ivies.</p>
<p>I apologize if I left the impression that S was “trophy hunting”. I was only trying to shorten the list of tours and would only apply to schools that S was genuinely interested in attending and was an appropriate fit. Truth is, S really has no idea how interested he will be until he visits - and he has already visited the schools on his list.</p>
<p>As far as a safety, we’re counting Michigan as a safety because he will apply first thing with rolling admissions and we are in-state.</p>
<p>Interesting perceptions of ADHD - and all valid. ADHD presents itself in very different ways and it was probably a disservice to merely label S, but shorthand seemed appropriate. As some others, S is ADD (no H) and only has trouble in classes that are not challenging. He definitely has the hyper focus thing going when he is motivated and engaged. I think this is why he is gravitating toward the schools with tough cores, because he craves the structure and difficulty.</p>
<p>By the way, I have read that Carleton is great for pre-med. Also, have a close friend whose son did research there and moved on with the federally funded project to a fully paid PhD at Harvard. Can’t read too much into one instance, but caught my attention.</p>
<p>I keep hearing that Yale has a huge gay population. Which is great to know if you are gay I suppose. Is that nonsense generally the gay population like any other minority is represented as it should be but is it true Yale is known lately as drawing a larger gay population? This question is not meant to be inflamatory or negative I am curious about the segment and there is no other way to ask about it openly.</p>
<p>Carleton does sound like a good fit. I am hoping my S checks Carleton out if he’s in the running grades-wise. (He is only a freshman right now.)</p>
<p>Reality check. I don’t want to be rude but…</p>
<p>There are 8 Ivies. They are very different schools. There is NO way that any student would be seriously interested in all 8. All you’ve experienced here is a lot of satisfied customers coming on line to say “Choose the one I or my kid attends!” So, spend some time on-line and in the library and figure out which ones do offer your son a “fit.” Quirky means VERY different things to different people. (Personally, I would NEVER, ever use the word quirky to describe kids at Cornell, Dartmouth, or Princeton; I would use it VERY rarely to describe Penn kids…and I know a lot of people who have gone to those schools.) </p>
<p>Next, I hate to throw cold water, but… 2100 SAT puts any white or Asian middle class kid with two US born college-educated parents who lives in the Boston to D.C. zone, urban California, Chicago or Miami at the bottom of the pool stats wise. So, unless your son is super resilient and can deal with lots of rejections…one’s a good idea, a very good idea! </p>
<p>I tried to check your posting history and had trouble trying to go back in time. What are good ECs? I’ve found that what many parents consider “good ECs” are pathetic in the Ivy pools. I know…I know…I sound rude. I’m honestly not trying to be. But on a 1 to 6 system at Harvard, with 6 being best, being president of 2-3 high school clubs is a 2. On Penn’s 1 to 9 system a few years back an example of being the better debater on a regionally ranked policy debate team was a 7. </p>
<p>Seriously, I think ANY Ivy is a reach for your son. I think it would be fine to apply to a couple which “fit” him. But, reality is that, if he is white or Asian and doesn’t live in Montana or Utah, isn’t a URM, legacy or recruited athlete, and has two college-educated parents, the odds are WELL below 50% he’ll get into ANY Ivy. So, do focus the apps on a couple of schools, pay the lottery fee, and wait for the result. Unless the impetus comes from him, don’t drag him off to look at all of the Ivies. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
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<p>That last post made it seem like every student at Ivy League schools is a poor minority from Utah. These things help students get into Ivy League schools because students with these aspects are underrepresented. For every poor student there are twenty or thirty rich students, for every URM, two non-URM’s, for every kid from Utah–well, lets face it, there’s really only one kid from Utah. Just because he doesn’t fit into any of those categories, doesn’t mean that he can’t possibly get in. Sure they help in admissions, but they only help because they are underrepresented.</p>
<p>point of information re jonri’s post - I believe the OPson’s SAT was 2300, not 2100. I do wonder about the notion of applying to “one ivy, just for grins.” I would think that if first choice school is UChicago that one would want to add schools that replicate the features that make it desirable, regardless of what athletic league the school participates in. Applying “just for grins”? 
???</p>
<p>My reading, jmmom, is that the OP was being deliberately being offhand sounding, in opposition to the “my kid has to go to HYP” type of parent. I didn’t suppose he really meant “just for grins.” It’s early yet in the making the list department, and this is one group of schools that a kid with this kid’s qualifications may be looking at. </p>
<p>Jonri, I think he knows that it’s all abaout fit, that these eight schools have nothing in common, and that’s why he’s asking. I don’t sense that all the answers were–go to my kid’s school or my school–though some were.</p>
<p>I think that it’s interesting tht two came up the most–Columbia and Brown. I have often argued against the notion that one kid can’t like both because one has The Core and one has no core, but I do think they both tend to attract the intellectually “quirky” kids.</p>
<p>I think that without a doubt Columbia is the most like UChicago, and if one is not a problem for the kid with the ADD issues, then neither should the other be.</p>
<p>So, even though my S goes there, I strongly suggest the OP’s S check it out, because I think it most fits his description.</p>
<p>And Bing, funny post about the Utah kid.</p>
<p>I agree that the same sort of kids can be attracted to very different schools( or at least they seem dissimilar on the surface)
For example- Compare Reed to Columbia ( core curriculum) and Brown to Evergreen ( no core reqs- very liberal)
Reed and Evergreen were Ds top 2 schools, we also know students who have transfered to Evergreen from Reed. Same sorts of students- quirky, liberal, intellectual, and both schools require internal/personal- structure/motivation- Reed to get through the mountains of work, and Evergreen to remain focused in the midst of lack of external structure</p>
<p>Point well taken Jonri. A couple quibles though.</p>
<p>You will see in the initial post of this thread that S SAT was 2300, not 2100. </p>
<p>I am not dragging him off. If he said, I am only interested in Columbia that would be great with me. If he said I’m not interested in any of them, fine with me. The purpose here is simply to gather information. </p>
<p>Please, please, I retract my flippant “just for grins” comment. Let me rephrase.</p>
<p>S wants to apply to a respected Ivy institution after thorough research, due consideration and with the most honorable and pure intentions if, and only if, there is a suitable match. Better? </p>
<p>I didn’t really go into detail on the specifics of his stats and EC’s because this really wasn’t a “What Are My Chances?” post (and aren’t we all just a little tired of those anyway?). I’ve read enough here to know that he is competitive with other admits to any of the Ivies. Whether he gets in to any or not, I guess it depends on how the stars are aligned that day…</p>
<p>S and I have read college guides, literature in the mail (he got a 235 PSAT and checked the “it’s OK to fill our mailbox” box) and web sites until our eyes bleed. Even given that, he still doesn’t feel that he can get a true read on a school without visiting, talking to students, etc. (and I tend to agree).</p>
<p>The original reason I asked specifically about the Ivies is that I know “nothing” about them beyond what I’ve read and, at the risk of sounding flippant again, they do have a national reputation (commonality via athletic league aside). In my reading, I found something to commend each (for obvious reasons), and this thread has reinforced the belief because all of the 8 have been recommended.</p>
<p>Please understand that S attends a school that has not sent a kid to any Ivy League school (or Chicago for that matter) in the entire tenure of the current counselor - 30 years. So this is uncharted water for us.</p>
<p>Road trip…</p>
<p>ps Garland, you read me like a book.</p>
<p>Well stated, SBDad. I see where you’re coming from and take back any connotations that may have come with my post #47. :)</p>
<p>I apologize for thinking it was 2100. 2300 definitely does give him better odds.</p>
<p>I was reacting to your statement that “what this thread has taught me is that we should tour most, if not all, the Ivies.” The only way that makes sense to me is if you plan to visit every prestigious private university in the US with median SATs of 2100 or so and up–I don’t know exact numbers. So, add to your list Stanford, MIT, CalTech, Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, and a few more I’ve forgetting at the moment, and your game plan makes sense. Otherwise, to me personally, touring all of the Ivies makes NO sense. </p>
<p>IMO, the Ivies really are 8 very different schools. And, just my personal two cents, but IMO MOST do NOT attract what I consider “quirky” kids. Now, your definition of quirky may not be my definition of quirky, but again, quirky kids…Dartmouth? …Princeton? If the student bodies at those two schools are “quirky” please name a university that has a student body that isn’t quirky. ( I’ll get flamed for this, but personally, the only universities I could think of that would qualify as non-quirky if Dartmouth is quirky are the military academies. )</p>
<p>So, I’m sorry if I “sounded” rude, but IMO, if all 8 Ivies are of interest at this point, you really haven’t done enough homework and , IMO, you should do a lot before you decide which, if any, Ivies, you want to visit. I DO understand that that’s what you were attempting to do in your original post. However, IMO, and this may be tactless…many of the posters just threw in the Ivy they like, usually, but not always, because it’s the one their kids attend.
Again, IMO, it’s a really rare kid who would be happy at all 8 of the Ivies.</p>
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<p>Brown. My son’s chief lasting impression of the school was the quirkiness of the people there.</p>
<p>Jonri, I agree with you about Ivies and “quirky” kids – the problem is that the quirky kid with the ADD learning profile (inconsistent; hyperfocus on areas of interest, a lackadaisical approach to anything deemed boring or lacking challenge) – often have uneven academic profiles. Either they have major dings in their GPA’s, or they didn’t follow the recommended college prep path. So it becomes far more difficult for them to meet the bar set by the most competitive colleges. That probably is one reason that a college like Reed ended up with such a quirky student body – its a place that historically has been more foregiving of weaknesses in an academic transcript, but at the same time provides an intense academic experience. (But then Reed also likes its quirky rep, which tends to attract even more quirky kids).</p>
<p>I’m not saying that this applies to all “quirky” kids – the OP’s son may very well be able to make the Ivy grade – I’m just saying that when a kid needs to have near-perfect SAT scores coupled with top class rank & GPAs earned with a “most challenging” high school curriculum, the applicants who are very smart, very focused & disciplined, and eager to conform to adult expectations are more likely to make the grade. So “quirky” generally equates with a more foregiving or flexible set of admission criteria. </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean that the quirky kid won’t fit or won’t do well if they are able to win Ivy admission. But its probably a mistake to build a college search for a kid like that around prestige or rankings… the best fit colleges might be the type you never heard of. </p>
<p>So maybe the best advice to the OP is to let the kid spend some time browsing books like “Cool Colleges: For the Hyper-Intelligent, Self-Directed, Late Blooming, and Just Plain Different” by Donald Asher or Loren Pope’s “Colleges that Change Lives” – and develop his college visit wish list from there. The advantage of those books is that they get the kid thinking beyond the idea of “college” or even “college curriculum” to broader issues about the type of learning environment that is desired.</p>
<p>Maybe we need to define “Quirky.” :)</p>
<p>My daughter considers herself quirky, and the quirkiness factor was a big aspect of her search. What SHE was looking for, ultimately, was a school with a very laid back atmosphere with a high tolerance for and even celebration of individual differences. In fact, to HER, quirky meant a large percentage of the student body didn’t fit neatly into a specific box both intellectually and socially. She specifically did not like schools where she saw a lot of girls carrying designer handbags, boys driving BMW’s, or classroom discussions where the majority viewpoint was automatically accepted - to HER, that wasn’t quirky. </p>
<p>But, as Jonri so aptly points out, “quirky” can mean wildly different things to different people. So, the question comes back to — how does the OP define “quirky” when it comes to his son?</p>
<p>SBDad, since all the Ivies have been mentioned at one point or another, I would suggest that he visit a few, and then re-assess his list of criteria. Columbia is probably on paper the best fit, but I don’t think Columbia or Chicago will either one win any awards for hand-holding!</p>
<p>Some of his criteria are somewhat mutually exclusive, but that all comes down to what does he mean by “quirky” and “hand-holding”, and what is the relative importance to him of each criterion. A couple of visits or some time on the LiveJournal may help him with that distinction. Time to see which he could visit.</p>
<p>Let me throw out the term “quirky” and try to give a more detailed description.</p>
<p>Socially, he does not fit in with his peers at the small rural high school he attends, because;
a. he likes to discuss topics like comparative religion, politics, philosophy, etc. (he’s very bad at social banter);
b. isn’t interested in parties, high school sports (although he was a part of the state championship ski team), gossip, etc.
c. has no clue, and doesn’t want one, about the latest fashions, ipods, IM’ing, etc.
d. hates rap (“you can’t spell crap without rap”) and pop music - listens to and plays jazz (piano).
e. very much in his own head, which sometimes comes off as either being spacey or rude.</p>
<p>Just to give you some more perspective, he is the only kid in his class of 100 who even took the SAT. Even though this is ACT country, he saw the SAT was more the standard in most first tier schools. He also found out about TASP all on his own and applied.</p>
<p>I should also tell you that he is not in the slightest bit arrogant, which he may come off as after reading the above description. He is a very sweet and gentle boy.</p>
<p>I see what you mean about some criteria being mutually exclusive. Truth be known, the “hand-holding” comes from me (ADD worries) and the strong core/tough cirriculum comes from him.</p>
<p>Does this help?</p>
<p>Aaahh, does he need a date? Oh, never mind.
My DD is a happy camper at a school where she doesn’t fit the stereotype of the school. It has something of a party reputation among the Ivies, and she is a non-partier. She found “her people” though, and that is what is important, and why I think he needs to pick one or two and visit. She discovered through visits that she wanted some school spirit - not the blase, sophisticated, “we’re way too cool to do crazy stuff” feel; she also learned that she wanted a small college town environment, not a city. Now that she is in college, she has gone to a couple of frat parties, although still doesn’t drink and she has a group of friends that she feels very comfortable with, that also don’t drink and don’t center their lives around frat parties. Her friends are very down to earth and non-pretentious.
It is quite likely that he will find a group that suits him, wherever he ends up. These kids are very, very smart, there are some philosophic discussions going on, despite the feel that life is one endless party. The quality of education will be high, at any of these choices. He can only find the feel of what he wants by actually talking to some kids or visiting. And, the school that fits might not be the one that on paper at first seems right. </p>
<p>has he thought about MIT - I’m not kidding?</p>
<p>Also, many of these schools - Dartmouth, Yale and a couple of others mentioned, have a humanities class for freshmen that cover some of a core curriculum. Only at Columbia and Chicago, though, does the whole freshman class engage in the same general courses - which some people find very appealing. At Dart, for example, they don’t always do the best job matching up the kids who want to take the Hum class with the class - my D didn’t get it and she really wanted it, a guy on her floor got put into the class, and it was a second choice for him.</p>
<p>If the idea of a core curriculum followed by a big proportion of the freshman class appeals to him, look at St. Olaf and Rhodes College as safeties - one has 2 required courses that all frosh must pick from, the other has a program where a number of freshmen live in the same dorm and study a “Great Books” type curriculum for 1-2 years.</p>
<p>So here, quirky is a “marches to the beat of a different drummer” (Art Blakey?) kind of kid… </p>
<p>You want a place that values the individual, has a healthy lashing of “nerds” and has a campus culture where the kids do not move in lock-step and where they respect the unique contributions of all the unusual kids. Because, surely, your son will be a fairly ‘alternative’ presence in any group of 18-22 year olds on the ipod/rap front alone.</p>
<p>I agree with the MIT suggestion. I would toss in Swarthmore and Reed as good campus cultures for individuals, maybe Rice too?, and I’ll reiterate my earlier suggestions of Brown, Haverford & Wesleyan. </p>
<p>He might find happiness, on the safety level, with some of the former womens’ colleges like Skidmore and Vassar where the arts are big and the kids are very warm. Or at a St Johns type school where the unusual kids self-select. Or as you already mentioned a big State U where there is a large enough group to produce sub-groups of kids he’ll fit with.</p>
<p>Seems like the degree of fit would be inversely proportionate to number of frats and designer handbags, and will correlate with degree of diversity, acceptance of others, and serious academics. </p>
<p>You want a place where the other kids who meet your son will begin with the assumption that a Luddite jazz musician wearing the wrong clothes has LOTS and LOTS to offer, and who will be interested to find out exactly what that is.</p>
<p>OP: sometimes there is a benefit to applying to ALL schools that might possibly suit him and then, after acceptances (this time next year, when he is a bit older) he can make up his mind about best fit from those choices available. A successful strategy used in my geographic area for this type of student would be Chicago EA and, if accepted, limit the remaining applications to reaches that seem interesting. (Unless, of course, financial aid is a consideration- then many more schools with the hope and possibility of competing offers) Then make a final decision after visiting. My own quirky kid insisted on going to an ivy that no one would have thought a good match -not a quirky school!- but it works great for him. We really tried to discourage him from applying! He chose it because of a particular program, department and professors, although he had other, more quirkily appropriate ivy options. He did not limit his apps to ivys, of course, but that is what I am focusing on since that is your question. He loves his school and has lots of friends with similar interests. It sounds like your son would fit right into their group. And you don’t HAVE to visit colleges to apply. My son was accepted to quite a few with no visits beforehand–including some ivies. My advice: give it a shot and let him make up his mind after visits next April, or in the case of likely letters Feb and March. Good luck! Has anyone suggested Swarthmore to you yet? I didn’t get through the whole thread.</p>