Post #79 - which school should you pick if you like to stereotype? 
@LACexpert2 wrote
Fifty shades of gray.
@circuitrider I’d say it’s a fair assessment for each school.
@uesmomof2 I agree with what you’re going at. Perhaps we can just agree that all the argued 10-15 colleges in the previous pages are all great in their own ways, we should now move on to how they are strong in certain fields (Wes with film as you stated, STEM seen often in Carleton and others), along with their characteristics. You are among the first to really bring up this (effectively) so I commend you for shifting our focus.
Actually, you have it completely wrong. It’s AMHERST that has “fallen” the furthest from its peak as an object of public interest and discourse (i.e., prestige) over the past fifty years. As illustrated by this N-gram (a measurement of words and phrases published in print over the course of time, as compiled by Google) it has been leveling off since the mid-1960s:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the+Brandeis+University%2Cthe+Swarthmore+College%2Cthe+Oberlin+College%2Cthe+Haverford+College%2Cthe+Davidson+College%2Cthe+Wesleyan+University%2Cthe+Amherst+College%2Cthe+Williams+College%2Cthe+Pomona+College%2Cthe+Bowdoin+College%2Cthe+Carleton+College&year_start=1945&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cthe%20Brandeis%20University%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Swarthmore%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Oberlin%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Haverford%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Davidson%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Wesleyan%20University%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Amherst%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Williams%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Pomona%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Bowdoin%20College%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20Carleton%20College%3B%2Cc0
@circuitrider , What’s your definition of " The Up-and-Comers"?
Based on the above, I’d say, Carleton, Pomona and Davidson.
Highest attained US News rank by school:
- Amherst, Williams Swarthmore
- n/a
- Carleton, Wellesley
- Bowdoin, Middlebury, Pomona
- Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Oberlin
- Wesleyan
- Davidson, Grinnell, Smith
- Claremont McKenna, Washington & Lee
@circuitrider To say I have it “completely wrong” is in a different context than to what I was referring. I was referring to their respective ranks not from those statistics. Also, try being less standoffish.
@LACexpert2 Is a school only as good as its US News rank?
I have no idea what you just said.
@circuitrider Let me break it down for you, son!
Ok kiddie, so what I meant to say little one is that I was referring to how the school’s I defined as “Fallen Stars” have FALLEN in rankings. Bryn Mawr and Oberlin are definitely valid. I did not originally consider Amherst to be one as the general consensus among the academic community and public (whether or not they choose to put it in print or not) it is by far one of the most prestigious and best LACs.
@smartalic34 Certainly not! In previous posts I have argued against US News rankings and the like.
FWIW, If someone were making a LAC selectivity ranking (weighted admit % +SAT) in 1971 it would have looked like this:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Haverford
Wesleyan
Williams
Middlebury
Bryn Mawr
Oberlin
Bowdoin
Pomona
Hamilton
Wellesley
Sarah Lawrence
Vassar
Smith
Davidson
Trinity College
Reed
Colgate
Union
Carleton
Colby
Occidental
Bates
Barnard
Mt Holyoke
Claremont
Grinnell
Macalester
@monydad Hi! Where’d you get these stats at? It’s very interesting to see how much colleges’ stats have changed, especially seeing schools like Grinnell, Colby, and (surprisingly) Carleton rise up a lot in the next 40 years.
Also, I know this isn’t the best way to gauge the elite LACs’ student quality, but what national research universities (non-LACs) did you or someone you know turn down (perhaps some Ivies, as I’m aware happens sometimes) to attend ___ College?
As for Swarthmore, I have a few co-workers’ kids turn down Harvard and other Ivies, same goes for Williams and Amherst. I’ve looked on other threads for Claremont McKenna and a lot turned down USC, UCLA, and UC Berkeley, some turning down Ivies. I’d assume the same goes for Pomona. Carleton I’ve heard Johns Hopkins, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, UChicago, and occasional HYPS. Bowdoin I’ve seen WashU and Cornell, but I’m sure there are many more I’m just not aware.
The main sticking point for students who are considering top universities and top LACs is that even the best LACs have a lack of name recognition.
As mentioned on another excellent thread elsewhere (if anyone can link it to me that’d be great), many high achieving students want validation for their hard work and attend a brand name school, while other high achieving students want the tight-knit community of a LAC with academics that (even though most people don’t know about) parallel brand name schools.
That’s why there are often more kids ending up at Ivies than LACs in many cases.
LACExpert, you keep mentioning that Carleton was once third in USNWR. Sure it’s possible, but I don’t recall this. I’ve seen others contradict this too. Can you let us know what this claim is based on?
@LACexpert2 It certainly seems that you feel that US News is the end all and be all, based on your posts like this one:
Do you mean “categorize LACs based on their US News ranking?” or just generally “categorize LACs?” Because it seems like it’s solely the former…
(p.s. I greatly appreciate all of the data!)
It’s sort of like the old joke “How do you describe a spiral staircase without using your hands?” [Answer: You can, but, it’s not worth the effort."
Similarly, most elite colleges have a stereotype or trope you can point to with ease. But, for some odd reason, with Amherst, it is almost impossible to do so without using its USNews ranking as a reference point. It’s become an extremely important part of their identity, as demonstrated by this fairly recent post from a first-year Lord Jeff:
.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/amherst-college/1770876-share-your-thoughts-a-discussion-on-amhersts-future-p1.html
Data is from college guides of the time, probably Cass & Birnbaum.