<p>Many students and parents, especially those on CC, seem to be absolutely obsessed with Ivy-type schools. In families where “Ivy Obsessionitis” (my term for obsession with elite colleges) exists, did this “phenomenon” begin with the parents or their children?</p>
<p>Sometimes it starts with students, sometimes with parents, sometimes with both and many families escape this affliction entirely.</p>
<p>edad: Interesting that you use the term “affliction” in your response. Why the word “affliction/”</p>
<p>obw, I thought you were movin’ on?</p>
<p>I was going to move on, but then I realized that I could have a positive effect on another whole crop of college-bound students (Class of 2008) and their parents. So, why not go for it?</p>
<p>You have to admit it: I do bring up topics that make people think— topics that virtually everyone else on CC chooses to ignore or simply don’t want to hear about. The problem is, I anger many of those for whom my post hit too close to home. But, if the Private Messages I receive saying “great post” or “thank you for raising that issue…I can relate to it” are any indication of the positive impact I’m having, I’m glad that I decided not to move on.</p>
<p>I actually started using this forum because I was looking for a lower prestige alternative to Rice since my son liked Rice, but it’s not at all clear that he can get in. I have found that for every student or parent on this forum who are hoping to get into a prestigious school there is one who is like me, looking for alternatives. That’s pretty remarkable considering that most of the students who ARE serious about trying to go to an elite school will most likely be the type of student who finds a forum like this. The students at my son’s high school who don’t have the high grades and test scores are, for the most part, going to one of the large public universities in our state, or they are going to community college. So, I don’t think that many students are actually obsessed with ivies.</p>
<p>"topics that virtually everyone else on CC chooses to ignore or simply don’t want to hear about. "
old, this is not true for many of US CC old timers who have been here for years. Please realize that many of the topics you think we ignore have been posted and discussed long before you arrived. A little respect is in order.</p>
<p>The Ivy obsession definitely came from my parents. My dad and old sister (daddy jr.) gawked at my safeties and a few of my matches sense they weren’t reputable in their eyes (i.e. Dickinson, University of Richmond, Arcadia, my dad even rolled his eyes slightly at Haverford).</p>
<p>My standard came from growing up on Stanford campus and spending summers at UCSF. I never undertood at such a young age thatthese were such great institutions, but I understood they were good. The facilites. labs, lecture halls, student-faculty dynamics, asthetics, and campuses of those two universities became my measureing stick for quality at every school I’ve visited since I was Stanford.</p>
<p>So, for instance…when I moved to Boston in high school and visited Harvard, I was displeased on many levels. Even more unsatisfying was Dartmouth, which I stayed three day for a tournament and observed a pretty bland, homogenous culture.</p>
<p>Just having the empirical standard of quality in the back of mind has led me and the college-bound students that I guide to selection Iknow will serve them btter than Ivies. I always love when student reach that breaktrhough, realizing that Ivies aren’t all that’s out there…and their definitely not THE best for everything.</p>
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<p>menlo: Sorry, I didn’t realize that the issues I raise have appeared on CC. I’ve been on here for less than one year, and I’ve never seen these issues raised. Also, most viewing CC today, at least the Class of 2008 and their parents, are probably relatively new to this site, so the issues I raise are ones that many viewers are being exposed to for the first time. They weren’t exposed to these issues in years past that you’ve been on this site.</p>
<p>cre8tive1: One of the most excellent and insightful posts I have ever seen on CC!!! I hope that many students and parents will take notice of your outstanding comments.</p>
<p>Watch out, though, many Ivy-obsessed students and parents will not like what you said. Just watch the next few posts to see what I mean!</p>
<p>For me growing up in New England I’d have to say that it was more just a cultural obsession with ivies more than what my parents or I ever expressed. Personally when I was applying to schools I was torn between finding schools that were great fits for me versus Ivies. I was lucky in so much as my parents have always given me control of my academic future. They would have been just as happy for me if I ended up at my local state college vs HYP. </p>
<p>However, I feel like I became slightly obsessed with Ivies thanks in part to our culture as a whole. Most of My teachers and friends all seem to have the notion that going to an Ivy league school is an accomplishment above anything else. For example, I’m heading to Georgetown next year however I was also accepted to Cornell and Brown. When talking about what school to choose with most of my teachers, they made it seem as if I’d be crazy to pick any school but Brown or Cornell. I’d have to explain to them how awesome of a fit Georgetown was for me, before they’d even consider it as a semi-viable option. It was disheartening to say the least. Ultimately however I felt I made the best decision for me, and that is the message here i guess. Why choose a school where you could be potentially miserable at, just for the names-sake, its completely unreasonable. So maybe I robbed a few of my teachers from bragging that they taught an Ivy-bound student (its a rarity at my school) but so what, I made the call that was perfect for me.</p>
<p>Hoya Saxa!</p>
<p>“They weren’t exposed to these issues in years past that you’ve been on this site.”?? Oh really? And you are basing this opinion on what exactly? There have been THOUSANDS of issues discussed here in the last 3 years, not all of them discussed strictly in the confines of a particular thread. I suggest you go back and read the archives over the last 3 years, if you want to be more helpful to students and parents posting questions here. It seems to me that you are more interested in trying to start a new business for yourself, with posts like the following
“If anyone can give me examples of these “special tactics” or “insider knowledge” these private counselors use to give their clients “an edge” in the elite college admission process, please share them. I’m anxious to learn of these special tactics that people are paying tens of thousands for.”</p>
<p>I have to agree with mikey about it being a cultural obsession. I certainly didn’t learn about Ivy Leagues from my parents, and my parents didn’t learn about the Ivies from me; rather I learned from my peers and they learned from theirs. </p>
<p>The other day at a community service project I was talking to one of my peers, and the topic of college came up. She asked where I was applying, I gave some vague answer (I really don’t like answering that type of question). She asked if I was going to apply to any Ivies; I said probably not. I am somewhat loathe to attend an Ivy League (because none of them - except perhaps Dartmouth and Brown - are fits for me, not because I am anti-prestige or anything silly like that). She told me that “was a shame” as she could “see me being accepted.” Like mikey’s friends, she’s been taught that Ivy League = the best = if you’re accepted, you’re going there.</p>
<p>While in individual cases it may be the parents or the students, as a whole the idea of Ivy obsession comes from culture. Often students and parents BOTH are pressured into Ivy obsession because everybody else is, and they don’t want to fall out of the loop. I’m sure my parents wouldn’t be so into Harvard and Stanford if their friends weren’t, for example. It’s this need to keep up with the times, and the times demands prestige, then so be it.</p>
<p>^^^Maybe it has something to do with the fact that you live in Cupertino, CA. For most kids, those who live in areas where only a small percentage even think about attending the Ivy Leagues, the obsession still comes from their parents.</p>
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<p>menlo: Why so angry and defensive? Please give me some respect. I spent 30 years in the “trenches” of college counseling and I’ve seen, first hand, which issues are important to bring up on CC. My knowledge of college counseling issues comes from first-hand experience, not from spending 10 years on CC or looking stuff up on the Internet. Anyone can do that. </p>
<p>Learn from the excellent posts that the adolescents have contributed to this thread. Stop the bashing, please!</p>
<p>I also believe it is a cultural obsession. My dad desperately wants me to go to Columbia… and he knows nothing about the University. Lucky for him after I did some research and visited the campus I love it and it has become my second choice. (Very lucky, actually. I was averse to the idea of an Ivy.)</p>
<p>But, do you see? He only wants me to go there because of the name. Because of the prestige that everyone associates with it. And this leads everyone else to associate prestige with Ivies.</p>
<p>The reason for aspiring to an Ivy-type education begins with neither parents nor students. It begins with the superb school, faculty, and fellow students who attend the school. It is only common sense to want that kind of environment if you are a great student. </p>
<p>The only reason for not aspiring to an Ivy-type education is that you don’t fit the profile. The real question is why more parents and students don’t strive to qualify for that kind of education and fit the profile. </p>
<p>If you have the talent, you should apply yourself and avoid time-wasting activities. Parents should guide and encourage their children when they are young. Stimulate their interests in intellectual pursuits. Even if you don’t get into an Ivy, you will be much better off. You’ll come closer to reaching your potential.</p>
<p>Listen to those who encourage you to strive for the best you can be, not those who try to make you feel good about mediocrity.</p>
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<p>excellent post. took the words out of my mouth.</p>
<p>(p.s. people love to hate the Ivies - they love to take it out back and take their turns beating the crap out of this quintessential bogeyman pi</p>
<p>My point certainly did not deny the fact that they are fine academic institutions , rather you’d be amiss to assume that they are the only 8 great colleges in America. I’m just merely proposing that we as a society in general put to much of an emphasize on the impressiveness of a name versus the fact that not everyone will find their fit at one of those 8 schools. I’d just wish that people in general would recognize that the ivies aren’t the ONLY top colleges in America to aspire to. Obviously that’s a generalization, but sadly its a generalization that far too many ordinary Americans subscribe to if they lack a decent understanding of college admissions today.</p>
<p>A few months ago, when there was a discussion on CC regarding obsession with the Ivy League, a mother actually commented that her son decided to go to Harvard when he was only 8 years old. After high school, he actually went on to attend Harvard. </p>
<p>She sincerely thought that her 8-year-old was capable of making the decision to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>I have had a lot of education in the areas of child and adolescent development, and when I look at the typical developmental tasks of an
8-year-old child, being capable of making the decision to attend Harvard is not among those developmental tasks.</p>
<p>I have to wonder if this child might have been brainwashed, at a very young age, to believe that his “life’s mission” was to attend Harvard. It makes me wonder what kind of environmental (family) factors entered into his decision to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>Someone once told me that their neighbor had two children who went on to attend Ivies. Here’s the interesting part: until the two children were in college, this neighbor never even knew that this family had those two children. They were never seen out riding their bikes or playing with other kids in the neighborhood. This person concluded that these children were probably inside studying all the time, and didn’t participate in the same types of activities as the other children in the neighborhood.</p>
<p>To the Ivy-obsessed, these are probably “success” stories. To me, these stories are sad.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>