<p>I never said that it makes perfect sense, that it’s fair, or that it was even the best way to get things done. But it was done. What’s done is done. </p>
<p>Sure, we could wipe Israel off the map and send the Jews back into diaspora, but what does that solve? Oh, and the comparison of Native Americans to Palestinians is a bit disingenuous, if you ask me.</p>
<p>You asked what erasing Israel would do? Here’s my list.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>End the imprisonment of 6 million Palestinians who lost their land.</p>
<ol>
<li>Help America’s budget because Israel has sucked over 120 billion from the United States treasury.</li>
<li>Reduce Anti-Americanism in the Middle East.</li>
<li>Reduce support for Islamists because part of their popular support comes from the fact that the populace is anti-Israeli.</li>
</ol>
<p>What we lose? (cricket sounds)
<p>
</p>
<p>And they go…where?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nevermind the fact that Israel is a strategic ally in the region. Oh, and 120b? Pfft. Let’s talk about the current account deficit first.</p>
<p>BTW, “imprisonment” sounds like weasel words at worst and overcharged at best.</p>
<p>Israel gets $3B in aid a year, while other countries in the area get the following:</p>
<p>Egypt - $2,116,000,000 Jordan - $192,814,000 Lebanon - $12,550,000 Liberia - $36,123,000 Angola - $54,408,000 Sudan - $1,121,000…</p>
<p>Egypt has always gotten nearly as much aid as Israel. So why are you fussing?</p>
<p>Prior to Hamas winning the election, the Palestinians were given millions and millions of dollars in aid, most of which never made it to the people. Arafat’s wife is still living high off the hog in Paris, I believe.</p>
<p>Six million Palestinians did not lose their land. An equal number of Palestinians and Jews (who were evicted from their native ME countries), about a million, lost their homes as a result of the creation of the state of Israel. </p>
<p>“Erasing Israel” as you call it is anti-Semitic. Deal with the problems with Israel in functional, political, socio-economic ways, but suggesting that Israel be “erased” makes you sound just as crazy as the Iranian president who wants to “erase Israel from the map”.</p>
<p>Yes, there is anti-American sentiment because of Israel. Yes, there must be a solution to this long standing conflict. But suggesting that a country be “erased” is so disgusting that I am done with all participation on this thread.</p>
<p>Though I agree that there was a lot of skullduggery in the creation of Israel (there is always skullduggery, the US/British actions in Iran were also duplicitous and wrongheaded at the time, even if they were considered necessary) only a fool or a sadist would argue that Israel should not exist. There are, of course, no shortage of fools. </p>
<p>Israel should get its act together–decide what it wants to be, to be sure, to the degree that it would be possible in the tempest that is now the middle east and to the degree that Israel has a clear national identity (it is, not even including the Arabs, an wide ethnic mix of peoples that call themselves Jewish). Something that could be interpreted in many different ways. </p>
<p>I agree that there was not only a collective guilt, on the part of Britain and France (very well earned by the French it should be said) but a passing off of the problem of the horrors of the holocaust and ethnic dislocation to the middle east due largely to the assumption that the those already living there were, in European racial terms, uncivilized and unworthy of governing themselves (see the formation of Iraq, the Syrian mandate, etc) etc. It is easy to see why this would be viewed by the locals as European imperialism. It was.</p>
<p>Now, we have many from the middle east earning the reputation that they have endured for over a century. Surprise: Uncivilized.</p>
<p>Israel will now have to play by Collin Powel’s ‘Pottery Barn’ rules, even if they did not break it themselves–which could be argued either way–something needs mending or being paid for. </p>
<p>Someone will pay. Somehow. The question is who and how.</p>
<p>Jimmy Carter notwithstanding.</p>
<p>"…something needs mending or being paid for. </p>
<p>Someone will pay. Somehow. The question is who and how."</p>
<p>Oh, don’t be so cute-sy cryptic, FS. Speak out loud. Tell us , don’t hint at it. If you believe it - say it.</p>
<p>not sure what you mean here, Crumudeon. Though I assume, having experienced your cynicism in the past, that you mean to imply that there is something untoward or improper in my posting. </p>
<p>Tell me which side to be on, if there is a side. Don’t be so cryptic. If you believe something, say it. Otherwise, perhaps you should simply share your own views, rather than using my words to make your point.</p>
<p>Do you have a specific question you’d like to ask me, or is this just some pointless baiting?</p>
<p>“Crumudeon?” Oh, FS, now really. Someone with you verbalbosity?</p>
<p>“Though I assume, having experienced your cynicism in the past, that you mean to imply that there is something untoward or improper in my posting.” Whatever could you mean?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…that’s what I thought.
Still, if I am wrong and you do have a real question, I am not shy and will do my best.</p>
<p>Now it’s “Crumudgeon”. See? You CAN learn. Don’t give up now, FS. It’s just around that next bend in the track. Chug, chug. Toot! Toot!</p>
<p>I know it’s pedantalizing of me to be so insouciant about the correct spelling and I apologize. But it is my name. 
We could at least try to get that right. Or is that too much of a bother?</p>
<p>I asked FountainSiren where she stood earlier, and I thought she replied fairly forthrightly that she didn’t know. She also linked to a review she recently wrote of a generally right-wing, pro-Israel book, and I thought her review indicated that she was very skeptical about the author’s argument but did not have a bright, shiny position to oppose to it.</p>
<p>I also don’t think it’s appropriate to beat up on her about this set of questions, which really ought to be extremely, maybe uniquely difficult for her. I, for one, vote for FS having a set position on fewer issues. She generally has interesting things to say, many of which I disagree with, but as with everyone they tend to be more interesting the more thought-through they are.</p>
<p>
I am in complete agreement.</p>
<p>
And I mostly agree with this , too. </p>
<p>Still, it would be nice if she’d spell my name right one out of every three times.</p>
<p>"And they go…where?</p>
<p>Driven into the sea, but where else?
I wonder how Israeli Arabs would feel about going from living in a free, prosperous state to a “Palestinian” state of chaos, kleptocracy and tryranny. Can we ask them?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Mine’s Fountainsiren, though I have yet to feel hurt by a misspelling or abbreviation, ‘FS,’ etc. I’m somewhat surprised to learn that I am the first to misspell your rather flatulent, though accurate, name, or to be upbraided for it. Whichever. </p>
<p>I suppose even old lawyers now reduced to *lawtering<a href=“lawyering%20or%20loitering%20in%20Texas”>/i</a> on cc can still learn, but I wouldn’t throw good money at it. Not this time. Not even if I had it, or you desperately needed it. Double-true in either case.</p>
<p>But to the point, did you have a question or am I right to assume you just live for trouble?</p>
<p>JHS,
You are likely correct, though I cannot judge myself (I’m a hanging judge so I don’t dare). I know what I don’t know and know that simply because I know something in some fashion does not make it right. It’s simply what I know.</p>
<p>I don’t often agree with FS either, but I happen to on her above post.</p>
<p>Imperialism has wrought problems for the US and Britain throughout history, and the mess in the middle east, ongoing for a century, is no exception.</p>
<p>Do <em>I</em> think placing a Jewish state, in the midst of a sea of hostile neighbors, was a good idea? Not particularly, especially in hindsight. Demographically, time is not on Israel’s side either. </p>
<p>But Israel is there. Idiotic comments regarding moving the entire population notwithstanding, there isn’t a question that this festering situation is creating more worldwide danger. No matter how horrid any of the other authoritarian regimes in the ME are, and no matter how much the sects hate each other, they can always bond together in common hatred against Israel, and by proxy, the United States, and worldwide Jewry. This hatred feeds the fanaticism that endangers the entire ME region, as well as the rest of the world.</p>
<p>Moving Israel is absurd. Dealing with the issues is imperative, but labeling Israel an “apartheid state” doesn’t advance progress in the slightest.</p>
<p>“I’m somewhat surprised to learn that I am the first to misspell your rather flatulent, though accurate, name, or to be upbraided for it. Whichever.” Fart jokes? Please.</p>
<p>Aim to please.
For more on the subject, see my post here (prefaced with Crumudgeon, of course):
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3325570#post3325570[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3325570#post3325570</a></p>
<p>“(prefaced with Crumudgeon, of course):”
Still can’t spell, can you? By now everyone can see it’s just a juvenile attempt to be humorous . Making reference to flatulence and intentionally misspelling someone’s name. Are you having a bad morning?</p>
<p>And only you would have viewed my “please” as a request for one of your supposedly witty remarks. Everyone else would have realized it was a polite request for you to refrain. As usual, your aim was off.</p>
<p>I am now bored with this. If you wish to joust further over “inanities”, just leave blanks for me to fill in . ;)</p>
<p>
lol. You are simply to cute. Polite. </p>
<p>To spell: last time–on purpose; first time–bad spelling. To spell is human, so’s to smell, fwiw. We’re all imperfect it seems, in our own peculiar way.</p>
<p>Edit:
“All happy lawyers are the same, each unhappy lawyer is unhappy in his own peculiar way”…still true today.</p>
<p>–Insert indignation here:_____________________________!
…Ou le soleil ne brille pas</p>
<p>From the rules (paraphrased): Posts should be in English.</p>
<p>FS–I was surprised to find you are only 19, yet you spend so much time on the Parents’ Forum. I wouldn’t hang out in the HS forum baiting teenagers.</p>
<p>There’s a tremendous difference in worldview between parents and children–too much to have fair or meaningful debates, IMHO.</p>