<p>Yeah but I think you’ll find that most HSers, even seniors, don’t necessarily judge social situations that well. I mean, I think some people know what’s going on sometimes but they choose to subscribe to more of a “well 99% of people get along with me so I’m not going to adjust for this guy.” Which, I think is fine, I mean I think for most people it’s a natural response and as long as it’s 1% and not 99% that don’t get along with you, you’ll probably do pretty well. </p>
<p>I’m just speaking generally now. As for the OP, I think the problem is, whether there’s more to the story or not, when HSers are misjudging situations or whatever, it is kind of more on the adult to not become involved in pettiness. If her son didn’t break rules that were previously set out as grounds for dismissal, which it doesn’t sound like that was the case, then I would have to say the coach is probably in the wrong here. If there were no warnings of such a consequence, then it is quite drastic action to just take over one thing. I mean I’m sure he has the right to do what he wants, I’m just talking in a practical or ethical sense.</p>
<p>"Hey, he was thrown off the varsity soccer team for taking the SAT instead of playing a Saturday game. I am sure part of that was meant to take him down a peg.</p>
<p>That’s life. We didn’t complain. He didn’t complain after the decision was made"</p>
<p>Hey if it’s any consolation, mine was cut from his college team for being pre-med. " I want soccer players first, students second." D3 no scholaship sports. [look out suny, I think you just hired him.] </p>
<p>That’s OK, he found Lacrosse and a coach who worked around his (and others) lab schedules. Happy to play something and become a doctor too.</p>
<p>wow, at my Ds school, the coach who kicked off a player for taking the SAT would be gone…no excuse to put athlectcs over academics</p>
<p>and any college coach that says he wants soccer players first, and students second should be reported for saying out loud what we know to be true in many cases…what an idjet</p>
<p>at least most colleges with big sports programs know enough to LOOK like they put academics first…</p>
<p>Exactly. I know a Div III scholarship athlete who had to switch schools because the coach would not let him pursue his major. Oh well.</p>
<p>He found a school and a scholarship that would.</p>
<p>Prince…we are in agreement. Never mind 18 year olds–people view situations through different colored lenses. When an 18 year old crashes into a teacher, the best thing a parent can do is make sure that the child learns a lesson. It can be a nuanced lesson. 18 year olds are capable of understanding nuance.</p>
<p>“That teacher is a BAD BAD man!” is a useless lesson in the majority of teacher-student conflicts. That’s been my experience at least.</p>
<p>Reminds me of architecture school. My classmate told me he deliberately put his desk near mine every year–“Sitting next to you is like sitting next to a car crash! It’s so exciting!” Hey–thanks for that.</p>
<p>Now, part of my ‘car crash’ personna was deliberate stagecraft, part of it may have been ‘arrogance’–but some of that crash business ‘found’ me because of my gender and my incredible confidence in that profession. In 1975, I was the proverbial female crab-- going up and out of the (miniscule) bucket designed for female architects. </p>
<p>Who knows why my desk seemed like a car crash to my male classmates. The why of it was useless to me. How to get out of the bucket was the task at hand.</p>
<p>I must not have expressed what I was trying to say very well, and for that, I apologize. I was not trying to emphasize that I use peers as a measuring stick…not at all. What I was trying to say was that there will always be kids who are able to complete work with less effort than a teacher deems “suitable,” and that that does not, IMHO, make a kid “lazy” or lacking in effort, a charge that the debate coach brought against dufus’s son, despite the kid’s notable achievements in debate. Simply because one is able to complete work more quickly and easily and with less effort does not mean he has an “attitude” problem or will have “disastrous” results in adulthood or even when he enters a more rigorous environment. That was the point I was making.</p>
<p>“that there will always be kids who are able to complete work with less effort than a teacher deems “suitable,” and that that does not, IMHO, make a kid “lazy” or lacking in effort, a charge that the debate coach brought against dufus’s son, despite the kid’s notable achievements in debate. Simply because one is able to complete work more quickly and easily and with less effort does not mean he has an “attitude” problem or will have “disastrous” results in adulthood or even when he enters a more rigorous environment. That was the point I was making.”</p>
<p>B, </p>
<p>Understood, the point I was making was the possibility that the teacher sees more potential for this kid than the local peers and wants the kid to do better than the local best. We’re only getting one side of the story here, our responses are based on our own experiences which then color the situation. This person may honestly dislike this kid. I dunno, I don’t deal with either. While I’m sure it can only be one way as we all gave birth to angels who never would disrespect or belittle someone else… Again not saying this is fact in this sitaution, but I am not certain it isn’t. Do you see my point? I see some different sides to this, it doesn’t mean your pov or even the poster’s is wrong, but without the otherside’s story I can’t be certain. A couple of pieces of hardware may not really mean that much. I mean I have a closet full. </p>
<p>I have two kids (both nm) one remembers everything with little to no effort, the other works hard to get there. I do understand for some it’s easy and others it’s hard.</p>
<p>I truly understand the point you were/are making. I do. What I didn’t understand then and still don’t understand now is the use of terms such as this in your post #36:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And…I think that you realized how your remarks sounded because you added this later:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe we just read the original post differently. As I’ve said many times, message sent rarely equals message received, filtered as it is through our own individual experiences/knowledge/biases. </p>
<p>I suppose that because I have a son who shares some similar characteristics to the OP’s and because I know what my son encountered in middle and high school, I am more apt to take dufus’s story at face value as it meshes with our experiences. </p>
<p>I really, really hope that this:
isn’t a slam at me or at my son because I have said that he is not arrogant. Arrogance is simply not tolerated in our home. It is a buzz issue for me, and that dog just won’t hunt around here.</p>
<p>I shall, however, give you the benefit of the doubt. ;)</p>
<p>At D’s school it would be a one game suspension and a bunch of ladders and wall jumps if it was for missing a practice. Missing a district game? Bye-bye. But we have had kids miss pre-district tournament games for SAT’s (that’s a one game suspension) and my D had to miss a warm-up game for playoffs for a scholarship weekend. She did most of her punishment before leaving and I think she only had to “not start” (since the warm-up game wasn’t on the schedule and she couldn’t really plan for it or re-schedule). </p>
<p>But to miss a scheduled game that counts in the standings when there are several other testing dates available? To me that’s a call a coach has to make IMO. </p>
<p>D’s coach gives them a schedule and says : here are the practices, here is the schedule. No weddings, no anniversaries - unless somebody is sick or dead or dying it’s unexcused. If you don’t like it, don’t play. Always catches a kid coming back at Christmas. Always. </p>
<p>Heck, we’ve had a girl suspended this year for a game for “intentionally” not slapping an assistant coach’s hand before a game in a huddle (a sign of disrespect supposedly). I cringed at that one but hey- I wasn’t there.</p>
<p>Every SAT Saturday was a game day for one sport or another. Plus, we don’t have as many SAT dates as the US but it wouldn’t matter. Life is full of compromises. As it was the one and only time he took the SATs–I’d say the timing was picture perfect.</p>
<p>Mentioning it to the Head would have drawn negative faculty attention in mid-year. Not worth it. Negative faculty attention is hardly ever worth it, in my oppinion. </p>
<p>No great loss in retrospect. Good lesson for my son on accepting a different path and enjoying the surprises along the way. His team ended the season with a great keeper and a great record and a great coaching experience. </p>
<p>The Varsity team was miserable. The coach threw the second best keeper off the team too–for missing a game due to academic travel.</p>
<p>Yeah, I think they can understand. Whether they choose to adjust is another story. And I think most people just don’t want to really. But at the same time, it takes all kinds. Look, I’m basically a pushover by choice. I don’t mean it to sound bad, but I do let things go more easily perhaps than other people my age, when they don’t matter. I think part of it is realizing where to sort of just chill and not try to find issues with someone. </p>
<p>The world needs people who will stand up to the 1% that won’t work with a normal person, or else that 1% will go and take over the world unchecked. But, people like me are necessary because someone needs to be able to work with the 1% and bring some unity into whatever situation. And neither position is really better, I guess. All the crabs CAN’T be at the top…it just won’t happen. Now if someone said their son got kicked out every activity and the teachers call every night, then that would be some cause for concern in that this kid would not be applying any social reasoning to the situations that he’s in. But, if this is the one time thing, then while I agree he needs to avoid any kind of victim role, it’s not necessarily a reflection of poor interpersonal skills. </p>
<p>One thing that sort of bothers me is the characterization of “sucking up” when it’s not that in many cases, it’s people who have a different personality. I’ve so been that person with the out of control coach who’s being petty with everyone, and I wound up in the “favorite” role where he was talking to me about everyone, ignoring everyone, only working with me. I did nothing to bring this on except not be contrary and attempt to just make the best of the situation. But even though most of the team knew it was not my problem, it was his, it’s still hard not to harbor resentment and I get that, I guess, if you haven’t been there. But like I said, it takes all kinds, and without those “suck ups” then there wouldn’t be any debate team.</p>
<p>so many other dates>? not really…and coaches who suspend kids for taking the SAT…why not schedule games that are important NOT on SAT dates, what the leagues can’t look at calendars and everything is supposed to revolve around games? hogwash</p>
<p>there are seven test dates a year…and those dates are posted WELL in advance…why not have games, gee IN THE AFTERNOON after the tests if there is a conflict</p>
<p>guess management like that is too much to ask for from coaches or who ever</p>
<p>seriouslly, how much would it take to play the soccer game at 3 instead of 10</p>
<p>nice try, but playing a game instead of taking a college test is not fair to ask the kids to do and the responsible adults should know that, but are too lazy to adjust, but expect the kids to</p>
<p>and yes, I do know what I am talking about…I coached, reffed and help schedule soccer games and yes it IS possible to move things around, it comes down to stuborness not to</p>
<p>it is truely amazing what power we give coaches, they can make up rules, be totally arbitrary, and answer to no one unless they physically hurt someone</p>
<p>some coaches are great, many are volunteers, but many are paid and are jerks and don’t really care about the kids, just the wins</p>
<p>CGM: This is a good example of why athletes are looked upon favorably. They really DO have to give up a tremendous amount to be on a varsity team.
Even the tryouts are held during vacation time, so the athletic commitment can impact the whole family.</p>
<p>I guess I sound abit harsh because of observation. My kids weren’t alone, they were parts of a group of kids who all were really really smart. Almost “village of the damed” smart as a group. One by one I’ve seen alot of them drop off the map, not because they lacked intelligence, but the pond got bigger and bigger and turned into the sea. It’s like burnout, sometimes it can’t be explained. </p>
<p>Also, there are kids who don’t apply themselves and then when eventually they have to, can’t because they lack the tools to be effective. Sometimes a really bright kid needs that kick in the ass not for now but later. It’s a skill to be learned even if natural ability rules the momment. The momment some day will get hard and then what? </p>
<p>It’s not a certainty a natural will fail, but it’s not a certainty they’ll always be successful either. true? </p>
<p>Good habits learned early won’t go away. We owe alot to a “mean” 6th grade teacher who saw beyond the highest test scores in the district, she saw a bigger ocean from our little pond. The tears my natural shed in 6th grade turned into solid work habits along with natural ability. Hopefully, he’ll go as far as he wants to. His sis, had to overcome learning disabilities early in life and never had it easy. She bagged her first semester 4.0 in bio, chem, calc at college. Works her butt off. I know it doesn’t apply to the natural aspect of this discussion, but I’ve got two kids and I don’t want to leave her out.</p>
<p>Absolutely not a slam. honestly. My angel was known as the fighten validictorian. On more than one occasion in K-12 he was assisted by a firm ear pull to apologise to in no particular order his teacher, the libararian, lunch lady, janitor, principal and vice prinicpal and coach. Have to say all but one lady formed great relationships with him after a bump or two. As a second grader he walked up to his teacher slamed his hand on her desk and told her directly and I quote “the conditions here are intolerable!”, she thought it was darling, we were mortified. It is funny now though. Maybe it’s how dr evil got his start. </p>
<p>“Now Opie’s kid’s D3 coach? Bring the tar and feathers.”</p>
<p>His HS coach, whom I did not get until senior year went just the opposite. My S was part of the knowledge bowl team for his HS (they won state that year) and he had a soccer game conflict with a match. His HS soccer looked him square in the eye and asked whose committment did he first make. The knowledge bowl team,</p>
<p>“fine, your starting spot will be here when you get back, keep your commitments. Do a good job.” </p>
<p>So for every one we want to tar and feather, another catches by complete surprize. His HS coach also wrote one of the most compelling letters of recogmendation on his behalf to earn him some youth soccer scholarship money. After spending 4 years of back and forth, good and bad with the guy, he writes a great letter, honest and deep. They both taught each other something.</p>
<p>Funny, without the more harsh and pejorative stuff, I will have to fully agree with you on several points–in fact, all of post #75. </p>
<p>
Absolutely true. Interestingly, when my son came home this semester, he said, “Mom…I finally understand what you’ve been saying all of these years.” When I asked WHICH thing <em>lol</em>, he answered, “The thing you always said about motivation, how it was <em>the</em> defining characteristic, all other things being equal.” Seems he’s seen a bit of this lately:
</p>
<p>He’s determined to stake his claim on that map. My money’s on him. :)</p>
<p>~berurah
p.s. Like your D, my D3K5 has been diagnosed with a learning disability that has proved quite challenging for her. She’s very bright, but struggles with certain skills in the language area. My D will be 12 next month, and the story of your D inspires me greatly. Kudos to her! :)</p>
Though my son has never been disrespectful to an adult (he knew that the life I’d given him could as easily be taken away ), he has had his share of non-angelic moments. </p>
<p>I actually got a call from his third grade teacher when he was 8. Seems he had gotten into some name calling with a little girl in class, and the girl was so upset over what he had called her that she had told the teacher and the teacher called me. I was MORTIFIED!!! I mean, this was my ambassador to the WORLD, my OLDEST child, and I get this CALL??? :eek: I was TERRIFIED to ask, but I did it anyway…“What exactly DID my son call the little girl?” The teacher hesitated for a second and then replied, “He called her a ‘paramecium’!” So, I turn to my son and asked, “Why on earth did you call her a paramecium?” And he replied, “Well, it’s a one-celled organism with no brain!” Oy.</p>
<p>In 8th grade, he did three days of in-school suspension for using the term “intercourse” in a little story that he had written with three other boys. Shameful! In our district, it’s O.K. to HAVE intercourse (those kids are given two-page spreads in the yearbook!), but go ahead and try to write the word… :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Did you ever look for a seed pod in their room? </p>
<p>Both my kids in grade school had a better command of the langauge than I did. Not to mention spelling.</p>
<p>My D’s problem was reading and speech, both were delayed a bit. Fortunately our school district has specialists that will work with kids early on. By the time she hit 5th grade, a fantastic reader.</p>
as we all gave birth to angels who never would disrespect or belittle someone else… Again not saying this is fact in this sitaution, but I am not certain it isn’t. Do you see my point? I see some different sides to this, it doesn’t mean your pov or even the poster’s is wrong, but without the otherside’s story I can’t be certain. A couple of pieces of hardware may not really mean that much. I mean I have a closet full. </p>
), he has had his share of non-angelic moments. </p>
Oy.</p>