<p>As a newcomer here 2.5 years ago, I was accused of being a “fake” because of the way in which I described my son on a thread in which I was seeking help. As the application process continued, it became very obvious that my description of my son was wholly accurate. </p>
<p>I still find myself puzzled by those who think they can see what no one else does in someone’s internet post. Having had a son similar to the OP’s and having dealt with MORE than one “debate coach”<----used in terms of the description in THIS thread, I find the the OP’s story most believable.</p>
<p>What on earth might cause you to say something like THIS, given the limited information at hand?
</p>
<p>There are several pejorative terms in that statement, none of which is warranted by the information given here.</p>
<p>I’m sure that there are many kids just like my son, who, having gone through h.s. with top grades requiring very little effort, rise to the challenge of an elite college. </p>
<p>Sometimes it’s just what it looks like…a teacher doesn’t like your kid.</p>
<p>whoa, mom defense shields up!! I did not read in Opie’s post that your child had a ruined life ahead of him, just that perhaps there is a side that maybe you (and we) don’t know and this could be a possible explaination. Yes, this teacher could be a psycho-control-freak-from-hell who tortures kids for the fun of it. Or maybe he was just fed up with a kid that doesn’t try because he’s talented enough to be able to slide. Or maybe it’s somewhere in the middle. You’ve been given some great advice from various posters. Best of luck, please let us know how you handle it and what the outcome is.</p>
<p>I admit that I had the desire to post something that may have been similar, but decided to just respond to the nuts and bolts and concentrate on the college app protection. </p>
<p>Coaches setting down the star player for being unprepared for or uninterested in practice? Happens all the time in almost every competitive endeavor. Sometimes to benefit the player, sometimes the team. It’s a coaching decision and one within his rights and discretion to make if and it’s a big if made for the reasons stated. (Now, if it’s just mean spiritedness on the part of the coach , which does happen, then we have a different situation.)</p>
<p>The part that seemed odd to me was the followup letters. I’d concentrate on that. JMO.</p>
<p>Thank you berurah. I knew that when I said that the coach has never liked my kid, I was setting myself up for judgement. My kid is not obnoxious, tremendously polite, and has never been a target before. But, as I tell all my kids, all the time, there will be people in your life, who for no apparent reason, are angry unhappy souls, and may choose you as their outlet. So, lucky kid, that this has not happened before the age of 17.</p>
I have six children and have BTDT several times with troubled people who are in positions of control or authority. It can <em>really</em> make you feel…and BE…helpless. I have a son who was a four-year debater (and who went to nationals his senior year), so my heart goes out to both your son AND you. What happened was inexcusable, IMHO.</p>
<p>Well curmudgeon, I fully agree with benching a player who did not show up to practice. Though I more often saw the reverse in sports. The awesome players still had the starting lineup, in spite of missing 3 practices in a row, and the average player who diligently shows up gets 10 minutes of playing time. Ofcourse. The coach wants to win the game!!!</p>
<p>In this case, there was no benching involved. No banning from the next tournament. Just a total boot off the team. Harsh indeed.</p>
<p>My advice is to document all that happened, what you as a parent observed, etc. If you don’t feel comfortable NOW sending anything in, you can do it graduation day. If you have younger kids, you can decide.</p>
<p>I had some MAJOR issues with my Ds 7th grade teacher. But they had to deal with her through 8th grade. The DAY my youngest graduated, the letter flew. To the district, to the principal, to the teachers, etc. Maybe things changed, maybe not, but at least I know I tried.</p>
<p>Once, we had a sports trip with the coach from (*#@. I left the trip midway (once another chaperone came) with my girls. It was amazing to me that parents defended this jerk, but they did. What did my girls learn? That you don’t have to put up with a bully.</p>
<p>I don’t think the coach with send anything, and this is such a minute issue, leaving an activity as a second semester senior, don’t fret.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your first priority is not to shame the coach or report his behavior. Your first priority is to make sure this information is not sent to colleges. An email to GC by son is appropriate.</p></li>
<li><p>If the coach is disliked and a problem, then the principal could very well be looking for supporting letters for dismissal or formal warning letters. However, as a former Board member at a private school, I can tell you that teachers instinctively band together when it comes to parent attacks. One parent attacks reminds them of when they were attacked. Don’t make your son a target. AS binx said, debaters love to ‘win’.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Therefore, consider the timing of your letter to the principal. Can it wait until after graduation? Your son has asked you not to get involved–and he may know something more about the politics at school. Do not embroil him in a greater controversy in his final semester. Make sure your hatches are buttoned down (confirming with GC) and then send a finely crafted letter to prinicpal–the day after graduation.</p>
<p>My son is on the top middle school team right now, and I see this ALL THE TIME!!! Here’s a good one from last week. Two of the starters got in trouble in school. One cheated on a science test, and the other exhibited poor classroom behavior (he does on the court as well, constantly). The two “offenders” had to stand in the middle of the court and say what their offenses were, while MY SON AND THE REST OF THE KIDS HAD TO RUN LAPS!!! HUH?? So, the offenders were the only ones who didn’t have to run. And watch 'em start again tomorrow, despite their behavior issues. My son, who EARNED a spot as a starter, is a bench warmer (even though he beats everyone one-on-one in practice <em>lol</em>) 'cause we don’t have the right last name. Integrity? Teaching and guiding kids? I think not.</p>
I think we are going a little OT but I agree with you choc. Drives us crazy doesn’t it? (At least as far as the failure to bench the star for a clear infraction. OTOH I’m all for playing kids in high school who will win the game for you. But discipline comes first if you want a championship program.) </p>
<p>The one thing I will say for the maniac who led my kid’s team to state - she’d sit the stars down for a missed practice , or even a less than full effort practice just as fast as the far end of the bench kid. I think you’ll find that the better programs do. JMO.</p>
<p>berurah, I think the coach could possibly be a sadistic egomaniac who should not be teaching kids. That type is often fooled by flattery, which dufusmom states is the case. It’s also possible that he has been communicating motivation problems with dufusmom’s kid over the last three years & the kid didn’t respond. Sometimes kids are just clueless, not necessarily trying to engage in a power struggle or be disrespectful. Sometimes the club supervisor or coach just can’t deal with the fact that this particular activity is not the center of a kid’s world. Particularly a kid who can succeed with minimal effort. </p>
<p>I’d only worry about a kid who put NO effort into ANY activity or academic subject. It’s perfectly normal & healthy to take on a few activities for fun and not delve in deeply. Dufusmom’s further posts make me think this is not a slacker kid, but one who is clashing with a coach. If GC assures mom that it won;t impact college options, I’d move on and tell son to enjoy the free time he gains by being off the team.</p>
<p>Look it is not a personal attack, just an observation from someone whose been on BOTH sides of these situations in the past. I’m not trying to defend this person, but in the same token I’m not going to condem them either. The reason is in your writing about your child’s commitment level. Your words made me question. I’d be more supportive if you stated your child busted his butt, not just won trophies, but worked hard at it and this happened. I’d be the first in line to yell foul. </p>
<p>However, we don’t know what to think because as you write, it does reveal that this is a low priority to your son and it is not given 100% compared to other things. Maybe the debate coach wants kids that will give 100%, IS that really wrong? or just a different level of commitment than you’re willing to give? Does it make him a bad guy for wanting a commitment? </p>
<p>I used to coach a sport for years and had a set of parents who saw no need for thier kid to come to practice as “he scores all the goals, so the other kids should practice to get as good as he is.” [true conversation] I replied to the parents that he’s not practicing for now, he’s practicing for later, when the competition gets better. [ it ended up I would go pick the kid up for practice if I wanted him to make practice.] </p>
<p>A year later the other kids have passed him by, their work habits surpassed his skill level and left him nothing but a disruptive force on the team. I finally had to supend him a game for something he pulled and his parents had him quit. I was a bad coach because he was talented enough for a while, but not willing to work to stay there, even though I would pick him up for practice.</p>
<p>By the time he hit HS, his sports career was over. There were far better players than him around. </p>
<p>So please forgive me for taking the direction that this coach might have an honest interest in your kid. Maybe he doesn’t, maybe he is just an ass. From your posting I just don’t see it 100% a certain way. Sorry I just was expressing a possibility.</p>
I can see what you are saying, but to me, it seems MUCH more plausible that dufusmom is presenting this accurately. I say this because if her son HAS been that successful in debate despite putting in “less effort” than some of the others, that can really grate on some personality types. Also, the stuff about the fawning and the “pets” rings <strong><em>SO</em></strong> true to me, as that goes on all over our school, particularly in the choir and drama classes which my girls have taken. Kids who choose not to “butter up” a teacher can be at a DISTINCT disadvantage, and this is coming from personal experience.</p>
<p>I remember a specific instance when my son was filling out his first h.s. enrollment schedule. He had to be approved by the teacher for enrollment in Honors English, and she REFUSED to approve my son because he didn’t “put in enough effort.” Problem was that he had a 99 average, and put in enough effort to sustain that. BUT…he could do it EASILY, and that irked her to NO end. </p>
<p>The gifted teacher thankfully took care of it. She simply said, “Put down Honors English, and I’ll take care of everything else.” He did, and she did.</p>
<p>That my son chose to “only” expend the effort necessary to sustain an A+ in the class was fine. See, he is what you would call an “Academic Optimizer.” He goes into each class, assesses the situation and determines what is necessary to excel (NOT get by, EXCEL), and does that. Is that so bad? Is that “lazy”? I’ve never heard the term lazy applied to him by ANYONE, but he does tend to be very efficient and thus minimize his efforts. </p>
<p>A more recent example from my son’s life. He pulled a 4.0 this semester–one A+ and the rest A’s. The classes were VERY challenging, including organic chemistry. He told me, though, that he feels that some of his classmates study inefficiently as he was able to do that with with less work than many of the others…and he himself has said NUMEROUS times that he has been truly humbled by the sheer brilliance of some of his peers at Duke, so he’s NOT claiming it’s due to only natural ability–MANY at Duke have far more than he. So…if my son is able to study “x” hours and pull an A in organic, and the next guy studies “x + y” hours and only pulls a C, who has worked harder? Is one lazy? </p>
<p>THAT is how I am reading dufusmom’s post…simply that her son does what my son does and has always done, courtesy of his natural ability–and that he has been a HUGE contributor to the debate team, something that the coach and some here have completely overlooked.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>clarification: Sticker, just 'cause I used your quote at the top of this post does NOT mean the entire post is directed at you, O.K.? :)</p>
<p>I have a similar child. So much comes so easily to him–plus he has been given so much, plus he has so many incredible opportunities in front of him. </p>
<p>I may have been somewhat similar when I was a child. I remember a family friend telling me that my mother had asked her to “take me down a peg or two.” Ouch. In primary school drama auditions, the nun made a big speech about how 29 out of 30 kids were outstanding but one was a nincampoop. One had to stand up and leave immediately. Guess who. </p>
<p>But hey, that’s life. That human condition attracts that response. Think of it as the ‘crab bucket syndrome’. Anyone familiar with the behaviour of crabs trapped at the bottom of a bucket will know what happens when one of them tries to climb to the top; instead of attempting the climb themselves, those left at the bottom of the bucket will do all in their collective power to drag the climber back down. </p>
<p>In guiding my son, I have been honest about his role in generating the responses. First, from the age of 2, we’ve spent 16 years reminding him that he is not 35. His subconcious tells him that he is as smart as any 35 year old. </p>
<p>And, though he provides great comfort to a legion of friends (we’ve had to establish boundaries at home–otherwise the house is crammed 24/7 with his entourage), he sometimes doesn’t suffer fools or boredom with the greatest humility. We have worked on improving his empathy and strategic overview so that when he is on his own–he won’t generate unnecessary attacks and he will diffuse escalating situations with easy apologies. </p>
<p>We have been honest with him too. These situations don’t fall out of the sky and hit just any kid. They have been, are presently–and likely will be-- part and parcel of his life. He would be an idiot not to learn from social breakdowns–such as the one dufus describes-- so that he may develop appropriate empathetic and strategic responses.</p>
This would not apply to my son at all. He is what he is, but he would never look down on someone whose talents lie in a different area. In fact, he might be prone to envy those with extreme athletic–but NO academic–ability JUST a little bit! (He’s no slouch athletically though.) </p>
<p>One of the good things about growin’ up in small-town Kansas was that he HAD to adapt to all types of people who are different than he. Though he is among much more similar academic peers at Duke, he loves and cherishes his hometown friends every bit as much, and he relates with them just as easily.</p>
<p>I tell you this because the “reactions” of others aren’t always reactions to something you’ve DONE. Sometimes, just being YOU is enough to engender a negative response–and I should know. ;)</p>
<p>That’s because your son is perfect b, and mine is not. Mine moved overseas, so he had to adjust to a completely different culture when he was 12. </p>
<p>Seriously, I have rarely met a high flyer who doesn’t have a bit of arrogance. Yours may be the first…but…</p>
<p>My son is FAR from perfect, but no, he is not arrogant. Not even a little bit. And even if he had been, his peers Duke would have dismissed any thoughts of his being all that special! ;)</p>
<p>dufusmom, your son is obviously a strong natural debater, and I bet you knew that early on ;). We have one too, but he was never interested in debate team. Your son stuck with the team even though the coach was unpleasant, and he himself was very busy with other activities. This doesn’t sound like a kid who is “heading for disaster in adulthood”. You’ve received great advice regarding the handling of this. The most important thing right now is to not let this jeapordize his college applications.</p>
<p>Congrats on having a great son. Both my children are doing very well in college with similar grades and both are in the sciences (med school and vet planned careers) . Where I guess we differ is the use of peers as a measuring stick. Doing better than your immediate peers sometimes isn’t the best form of measure. Although Duke certainly would be decent. If your child plans postgrad studies, the peer group expands at the same time grows narrow. </p>
<p>I also am not saying the poster’s kid is a weasel. I am raising a valid point. It doesn’t mean it’s correct compared to the posters, it’s just another possibility. True? not true?</p>
<p>*arrogant:…behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people *</p>
<p>Yup. He’s not the Messiah. My son is guilty of the second aspect of the definition–as are most teenagers. Even though he does know more than any 18 year old should–I find that behavior annoying at home. I am not surprised when his teachers and coaches find it annoying at school.</p>
<p>Hey, he was thrown off the varsity soccer team for taking the SAT instead of playing a Saturday game. I am sure part of that was meant to take him down a peg.</p>
<p>That’s life. We didn’t complain. He didn’t complain after the decision was made–although his teammates never stopped lobbying for his return. He let it go. He enjoyed the B team–and they were over the moon to have him as keeper–even though he didn’t attend any of the post-game team celebrations. </p>
(He’s no slouch athletically though.) </p>