<p>wis’s post made me think of the recent thread about changing a kid’s room when he/she goes to college. I remember being surprised at the number of people who said their kids’ rooms were “shrines” – their words, not mine. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.</p>
<p>We downsized when we had one left at home, I miss the prior storage, we still have too much stuff, but I am working on continuing to clear out the detritus of the years. We had two away at school and one home and ended up with one ‘girls’ room, one guest room and our room. They grumbled about not having the shrine perfect room, but not seriously. The one who grumbled the most is probably home a total of 15 days in a year, even when home for a break, she is always gone so we had to make us the priority.</p>
<p>I can understand the grumbling a bit, the parents built the 'perfect home" and perfect entertainment place, we used to have a house sort of like that, pool, basketball, lots to do (not quite like theirs, but still a great place for kids to have friends over) and we all missed it when we moved 10 years ago. Just having gone from the house where every one hangs out to the house where no one hangs out would be a bit of a culture shock to the kids and they probably need some blunt reality check talks to bring them around to understand the changes.</p>
<p>By the same token, going away to university is an unsettling time. The family homestead is sort of a rock, a touchstone, a place to feel grounded, so on some weird level it shakes up their world. My DD who is rarely here was taken aback by how bothered she was that her room was gone and not only that, we packed her room, so she did not know where anything was. Home is the place you assume will always be there.</p>
<p>I wonder, too, about them being from a prior marriage, maybe there are other issues caught up in all this?</p>
<p>No matter what is our STARTING POINT…going BACKWARD is hard on anyone. Yes, people in Asia are used to smaller living quarters than someone who lives in some apartments in some cities in the U.S. Either one wouldn’t be enough for the 4 bedroom suburbanite…and that would be crowded for the farm boy. It’s the downward change/trend that is hard. And, for children…it is also the safety and sense of belonging that come from a “history” their family built in their home. </p>
<p>I was orphaned at age 5. Shifted from relative to relative, stayed with whomever could keep me/us at the time. I went to many schools. I never felt sorry for myself, I didn’t have much even before I was orphaned. We slept 3 to a bed, sometimes 5 beds in one big room, boys/girls. You name it. One bathroom (at least it was indoor plumbing!) for 10 people. </p>
<p>BUT…now that I’m trying to raise a child (alone)…I worked very hard to get her a nice house, nice neighborhood, a sense of “belonging/town/continuity”, and safety/serenity. </p>
<p>I’ve fought cancer and have the bills to prove it. I know that I now cannot afford to send her to a “good” school unless I use the equity I’ve built in the home. I’m sure I’ll have to move. And we’ll probably be putting the house up for sale about the time of senior graduation. It will be very hard. And I UNDERSTAND what it will be like for her to come home from college to a home in which she has no history. She’s more than willing; she knows what this education is going to cost. But I think we will still both feel “let down” if I’m in a little apartment or retirement house. I mostly know it won’t be her “home” anymore. And she’s probably going away, maybe FAR away to college. Like every parent I want her home as often as I can get to see her. But there will now be no pull/no reason to come more often. I’m not a martyr, of COURSE she’ll come home to visit me. It’s been just the two of us for 17 years. But visits will be fewer and fewer. And we won’t have a big place for her to maybe bring friends home over break. And it won’t be big enough to have her family stay, when she has one. </p>
<p>So I’m heartsick, BUT…we have to decide what’s important for each of us. I ended up HATING high school, and didn’t go to college. She LOVES education and WILL be as well educated as I can afford. So, if I’m lucky enough to have a warm dry bed, enough food, and OK, let’s face it…cable TV and the Internet (hahaha!)…I’m not going to complain. And neither is she. Well…most days anyway. What’s hard is that it’s the loss of a time, loss of the memory, a backward motion. Like Wall Street employees who couldn’t handle the crash. And like we’re nearly ALL dealing with now…a lot of people are cutting back - more and more and more. It’s hard. It’s necessary. It’s life.</p>
<p>We live in a small home in a very upscale community of SoCal. We bought our house before the kids were born and always thought we would move to a larger place once we had kids, but that never happened. Our girls (now 17 and 15) have always shared a room and have learned to deal with it. By staying in our house we were able to send the kids to the best public schools around and without the large mortgage the girls have had many perks in their lives. </p>
<p>We have been able to travel many places in the world while many of the girls friends take no vacations as their parents are “house poor.” DD’s have also been involved in the extremely expensive sport of horses (hunter/jumper) and we have owned a horse (or horses) for the past 7 years. </p>
<p>Our smaller place is still where the teenagers love to hang out (we also have a pool and tennis courts). For sleepovers we have always just let the kids take over downstairs and although most of their friends have larger homes they love to come here.</p>
<p>Older DD spent a month sharing a two bedroom dorm with 3 other girls this summer at a precollege program and had no problems though many others complained loudly about the lack of space and privacy. My mother is one of eight children who grew up in a 3 bedroom house in PA. Her 2 brothers had a bedroom and the 6 girls shared the other bedroom. She has a wonderful relationship with all of her siblings that are still alive.</p>
<p>*DD’s have also been involved in the extremely expensive sport of horses (hunter/jumper) and we have owned a horse (or horses) for the past 7 years. *</p>
<p>See you already had a hole in the ground to throw money into
;)</p>
<p>This topic really strikes a chord with alot of us CCer’s. H and I HATE where we live right now and are trying to figure out where we’ll go after our eldest is in college. We’d like to move to a different part of the country. Then I get guilt pangs thinking that they won’t know anybody when they come back (although our youngest may be there in time for high school, or part of, anyway)…and they both love the lifestyle here. Then I think, “hey, wait a minute. Why should we live someplace that we don’t like so that if/when our kids come back to visit they’ll be happy?” No urgency so time will tell…</p>
<p>There are times for holding on, there are times for moving on. I do think end of HS beginning of college is a time when there are plenty of struggles with identity. Struggling with loss of place can be that much harder. Post college, well, hopefully everyone is sufficiently launched to make changes less of an issue. </p>
<p>WI75, your move sounds well timed. </p>
<p>Aibarr, I very much understand what you are saying. I grew up with divorced parents, and it was years and years before I knew another kid with divorced parents. When the people in your life are inconsistantly present, place can assume a greater importance. I grieved and grieved the loss of my school and neighborhood when we moved with my mom shortly post separation. Later changes? I rolled with 'em just fine.</p>
<p>As someone who lives in an “uncomfortable” 1200 square foot home that we own, I think it is yes, rather ungrateful for the kids to act so put out. They have the right to feel however they want to feel, of course. But get over it, kids, and get real.</p>
<p>I keep going back and forth about this article. Me. I grew up in a kind of kid-heaven—from which my parents moved when my sister went to college (I was 12). I settled nicely into our much smaller town house (a row house of about 1/5th the space (and no swimming pool ;-( ))–and my parents moved when I went to college, to an even smaller house (well, a one-bedroom apartment in the building they bought), where I got to sleep in the basement–which had German beetles. Not cockroaches, German beetles. They’re much larger and they crunch when you step on them.</p>
<p>I didn’t go home much. Mostly because I couldn’t stand my mother, but also because there was no home to go home to. I expect if someone from the NYT interviewed me after either of those moves, they would have ended up blistered. I feel some chord of sympathy with the kids. </p>
<p>But then… DH and I moved a lot too. In fact, we just moved from the Seattle suburbs to Portland. However, the kids have not complained–in fact, we’ve seen a lot of them this summer.</p>
<p>So the kids in the article are being kids–immature and perhaps a touch bratty. So what? They’re kids. Someday they may understand.</p>
<p>My mother’s curse comes to mind: “may you have kids just like you!”</p>
<p>Ummmm, should I be afraid to throw out the kids’ stuffed animals ? All 120 of them ? They had steadfastly refused our request to sort them out and give them away …</p>
<p>I am also thinking of eventually selling our current home, a home they grew up in since we are planning to move when they graduate from college to a warmer climate and closer to their aging grandparents. The issues raised in this thread make the decision more complicated. </p>
<p>How about our Chicago home ? They spent part of their childhood in Chicago too, and munchD loves her Chicago roots, though munchS said he hated that his high school and never want to go back to the same community. Decisions, decisions.</p>
<p>I think it’s always a little difficult to give up on going back to the home you grew up in.
I remember with some nostalgia when I’d learned my parents were selling their home and retiring to a warmer state many miles away. While I’d been “gone” for some years to yet another part of the country, it always felt “right” to go back and visit, bringing our kids with us, to stay where I’d grown up.</p>
<p>With our kids, we’ve been preparing them mentally for awhile that we’d be downsizing in the next few years. Both out of college now, they seem to accept it as a future reality, but at first, the news wasn’t particularly well received (especially with S, the homebody).</p>
<p>But they’ve been hearing about it long enough that they’ve mentally adjusted to the idea, even making suggestions on a state/city where they’d most like to visit!</p>
<p>In our case, I’ve noticed a gradual shift in their attitude over the past 4 years as we’ve brought it up from time to time. The slow-roll method seems to be working for us. We haven’t been in a position financially to move/retire earlier, or I’d have done this 4 years ago! Then, I do believe they would have struggled with it. And having experienced that feeling myself, I truly understand the unsettling feeling that comes along with it.</p>
<p>wis75 capturing my sentiment about the issue MUCH better than I did. Curiouser I do agree that if you have the luxury of time the slow roll approach helps the kids adjust. that’s why I started the conversation when my DS was 10! Unfortunately in these economic times they may not have the luxury of slow roll.
I was just talking to a friend whose friend is having some hard times financially. Their house payment is $4,000. a month! I was shocked. If that were me I would sell that house and the kids would adjust or not but sometimes economics is a reality slap in the face…</p>
<p>I have questions for those who felt loss and more importantly resentment - would it be better if your parents moved away and went ahead with their lives and gave you the house ? You could visit your friends, hang out at your old HS if you wished, etc. Would that have made a difference to your bad feelings ?</p>
<p>I ask because we are in a position to do that with some planning and adjustments/sacrifices.</p>
<p>Also, would it be better if your parents made room for you in their new place, have a 4 bedroom so that you and your future kids could comfortably stay instead of the usual two bedroom an older couple needs ?</p>
<p>Yes, we’ve been “slow rolling” the idea since we bought a lot for our retirement home ten years ago. Evenso, when I mentioned it to S1 (age 22) recently, he said “I still want to be here to see all my friends for holidays”. We plan to start building this yr. and use it for weekends,holidays, summer vacations until S2 graduates college (2012) when we will move there permantly. Hopefully S’s will have adjusted by then.</p>
<p>Our new house (though smaller than current home) will have room for S’s to visit and is on a larger waterfront lot so outdoor space will be way better than our suburban tract home we currently occupy.</p>
<p>Munchkin–when we bought the house we’ll be moving to permanently, I mandated it be three bedroom, so kids (and future grandkids) would have room. (We ended up with a small four bedroom–actually bigger than the house we’ve had–so I have an office that can also sleep people in a pinch!) I WANT them to visit; I want family and friends to visit; I want my kids to bring THEIR friends. So yeah, I am an advocate of room, if possible, to make the ones I love feel welcome and comfortable.</p>
<p>I prefer smaller places because there is a continuous cost after-tax to unused space in terms of property taxes, principal and interest, insurance, heating costs, cooling costs and additional maintenance costs. I can always host visitors at a nearby hotel for a fraction of the annual price differential between a smaller house and a larger house.</p>
<p>I tend to agree BCeagle. I have a sister in law who has a four bedroom house, with a den and formal dining room and her rationale is that she likes to entertain.</p>
<p>Thats all well and good, but unreasonable if it impacts how the rest of your year is spent. Do you have to live on ramen in order to pay your property taxes when you entertain relatives in the summer?</p>
<p>Neither she nor my brother is currently working & since they have the new furniture to go with their recently built home, I can’t help but breathe a sigh of relief that while my husband and I have lived in a small home for the past 26 years- that even through lay offs and strikes, some for over a year at a time we have been able to stay in our neighborhood.</p>
<p>I can’t understand why college age kids complain about downsizing. If you don’t like your living conditions then move out. I hate kids that feel the sense of entitlement. If you want a bigger house, then go out and buy it.</p>
<p>Besides, I don’t understand why people in this thread are complaining about their houses being downsized and “awkward” when they come home because it’s not the same. When I go home, I go to see my family. I don’t go to see the house.</p>
<p>Ek–like I said, four bedrooms, but still smaller than the average american house. As far as taxes, where this house is is extremely low for NJ, and the insurance is lower than our tiny house in North Jersey. Once we can sell the other, this one will be far less to maintain than the old one. And I definitely never want to put my kids, grandkids, and other family up in a hotel. I want them all here, even if it means folks sleeping in the living room (no den or family room.)</p>
<p>Out of curiosity–What is the size of the average american house?</p>