I moved back to my home state, to the town my parents lived in, a year after I graduated from college. If my parents had sounded half this controlling, I NEVER would have wanted to be in the same city they lived in. I’d have stayed 1000+ miles away.
I’ll throw this out there just for discussion. Yes, my son is an adult now. That doesn’t mean I should stop helping him. And by helping him along in life, that will do nothing to tarnish his ability to grow up, be responsible, etc. It will simply help him along in life. You can learn nothing by paying $800 of rent every month to the landlord. Well, let me amend that a little bit. You can learn how to make other people rich. Other than that, not much can be learned there.
I’ve been blessed enough and lucky enough in life that I am a little bit ahead of the game. I could continue to accumulate wealth and then bequeath it all to my kids after I die but where is the fun in that? It seems me it is better to help them while I am alive. It isn’t controlling; it is smart. I am not forcing him to return to his hometown city, there is one other city that we both like, he and I, that I have encouraged him to go to if he wants too. I am possibly too stupid to understand how presenting him multiple options constitutes controlling him. Some of the comments on this thread are a little weird but I’m not real worried about that.
I meddle. I encourage. I prod. I demand. I insist. I guide. I share. I bribe. I do whatever I can to push my kids in the right direction. I apologize for none of it either. When either one of my sons thinks I’ve over stepped my bounds they tell me to mind my own business. They tell me to explain to them what is going on or what my concern is and so forth and so on. That is being a responsible, critical thinking adult and it works both ways. I expect and want them to tell me what they are doing and why they are doing it, what their plans are, and all the rest of it. We talk to each other and treat each other as adults and humor is always appreciated. I am sure many of you have similar relationships with your kids or other things that work just as well.
I want to thank @DadTwoGirls for the really nice post in #37. I also want to thank @busdriver11 for the kind post and thoughtful post in #38. Don’t worry @emilybee, I’ll try to get a life and stop with the city I approve of crap. I just walked in the door actually. I got up pretty early to spend my 10th Saturday this season, sometimes as late as 10 pm, volunteering to do tax returns for low income and elderly people. I met some amazing human beings and I’m glad I was able to help them a little bit today with their tax returns. My life does revolve around me job, my wife, my kids. I do it because I want too. I might vent now and then but it is a kind of cool to be involved in their lives big time. The reward is when they accomplish something amazing or just seeing them happy, taken care of, and moving towards their goals in life. Yes, there is the chance my kids run away and never talk to me again and I only see my grandkids in pictures. Yeah, that could happen. But what is far more likely is that quiet moment down the line when we are talking alone and they tell me that they know I’ve always had their back in life and how much they appreciate that even if there are times we don’t always agree. You’ve just got to talk it out. If you are going to do tough love you have to make sure you don’t forget the love part.
I need some OJ. Fresh out. The idea of waking up tomorrow without fresh OJ is unthinkable. Going to the store. I also need a drink. Might stop into the bar on the way home.
OP, I can tell you are a loving father. But you are too controlling. I also had a loving father, very generous financially. But the strings attached are too Much. Please…take this from a child who had a father just like you. In adulthood, I found I cringed when he called. I loved him, but now that he is gone, I really don’t even miss him that much. You need to support, love, but BACK off. Exercise and his diet? Geez, even my Dad didn’t do that. Tons of strings attached, but he seemed control lite compare to you. Give him a safe haven with a few ground rule perhaps, but stop! I can tell you, I remember some of the misery my Dad put us through, and try not to be like him…because I am like him! I am controlling, a helicopter parent. But since I’ve been on the other side, I see the long term damage it does.
It’s not your role to “present him multiple options.” He’s an adult. He gets to find his own options and choose among them. You don’t control his choices anymore.
This is the fundamental point that you’re missing.
"I’ve been blessed enough and lucky enough in life that I am a little bit ahead of the game. I could continue to accumulate wealth and then bequeath it all to my kids after I die but where is the fun in that? It seems me it is better to help them while I am alive. It isn’t controlling; it is smart. I am not forcing him to return to his hometown city, there is one other city that we both like, he and I, that I have encouraged him to go to if he wants too. "
It’s fine to help your kids if you can do so. When I was young I had friends whose parents helped them with down payments. I wished my parents had been able to do that 
But as far as I know, none of my friends’ parents tried to tell them where to live in exchange.
The fact that you would help him if he lived in this other city you find acceptable–I’m not sure how you think that makes it not controlling. You are saying you will help if he lives somewhere you approve of. Giving him a couple of options doesn’t really make much difference.
Another point: You’ve been talking about the ways in which you have interacted with your sons over the years as though they will continue.
But you and your son are at a point where the relationship between you needs to change. He’s not a child anymore. And very soon, he will no longer be a college student who’s financially dependent on his parents. He will be a full-fledged adult, and parents of adults need to relate to their grown children in ways that are different from the ways in which they related to them when they were younger.
You are trying to get your sons to live your dream. I understand the vicarious pleasure that can come from that, and the reflected pride in your (then joint) accomplishments, but you are stealing from your sons the chance to pursue their own dreams and the pride in accomplishing things on their own. There is self worth and esteem that comes from managing one’s own life and even paying one’s own rent. Your goal for them to have a small mortgage by age 30 may not be important to them, and their generation may have different values and priorities. You had your turn, now it is up to them to forge the path they want.
Sorry, that’s just patently false. Paying rent as a young adult, you learn how to budget, how to prioritize, how to meet obligations and deadlines. You learn how to live alone, how to enjoy your own company. You might learn how to cook, how to throw a dinner party or football watching event for your friends. You learn how to do without at times, such as when you have to turn your heat way down low because last month you went a little to warm and cozy and paid for it with a big utility bill. You learn that you can take care of yourself, and that is a HUGE feeling of accomplishment. You enjoy privacy for your romantic life, and that carries many lessons of its own. You learn that you can do this without depending on anyone else.
You are selling the experience of learning how to be a responsible independent adult really short. Having everything handed to you (and then having to do what the giver wants you to do with your life as a consequence) is not necessarily good for one’s character building.
You are describing things which parents do when their children are very young, and through adolescence. But as your children grow to adulthood, those things become highly inappropriate. No parent should be “meddling,” “demanding,” “insisting,” or “bribing” their ADULT offspring.
Our job when our children reach adulthood is to be available as a resource if our kids ask for our help and wisdom. The time for inflicting yourself and your values on your kids is over. It either “takes” or not by this age.
Boundaries are important here. If you don’t respect them, you will pay a price of some kind eventually. It seems you are requiring your kids to meet YOUR need to feel important and relevant. Controlling them is unnecessary. You will always be their father. Give them some space and let them learn how to take care of themselves without your “help.” You will be doing them a huge favor. Some of the stuff you are describing seems selfish on your part, though I think you believe it is the opposite.
Again, there is no question of your love for them. Just seems like you are going about some of this in the wrong way.
Hey, you put this out there-you asked for feedback.
There are probably many parents on this forum who lived at home for awhile, and many whose kids are/have lived with them after college for awhile. It’s not that unusual, and it is not shameful in any way. It is expensive out there, jobs don’t pay enough, and many college graduates have really struggled with underemployment or unemployment, college debt and living expenses. It is a very rational thing to do if your job doesn’t pay the bills or if you’re trying to save for a home.
However, in my opinion, I think it needs to be something that he wants to do. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with offering the bribe, however, if you’re getting to the point that you’re arguing about it, I would let it go. I have a philosophy, “Is this the hill I want to die on?” While it might be the best idea in the world, it’s not worth fighting about. He will be fine either way, and he knows he has his parents to fall back on if he needs to.
Enjoy your drink, but don’t hit the bar because you’re bummed, but because you’re celebrating that he wants to make his own path. It’s a good thing. :>
Could not agree more.
Helping them is fine, to a degree. Attaching any strings or conditions whatsoever to this help IS controlling. Giving him things and expecting to have the right to continue to “insist” or “demand” things because you are helping him IS controlling.
The best advice I got as my kids approached adulthood was, “If you do things for them that they could do for themselves, you are crippling them,” and that’s a philosophy I try to live by, even with my seriously mentally ill son. He CAN do a lot of things for himself, and he needs to. I won’t always be around.
Perspective of a 23 year old here: I learned how to budget my income, how to look for the right things in an apartment, how to pay the necessary bills but save where I can (funny how all of a sudden I put so much more thought into every purchase when it’s coming from my own saving account and not my parents’), how to keep my pantry and fridge stocked, what to do when the smoke detector blasts at 3am that it needs a battery change or the router breaks down the day before my first day at work or the furniture delivery company screws me over, how to balance work/social life/responsibility of maintaining a household, and basically every new lesson that pops up at least once a week.
More importantly, I don’t need to guess whether or not I’m ready to get married next year, because now I know what kind of lifestyle we can realistically afford on our salaries and I’m not in for a rude awakening.
“You can learn nothing by paying $800 of rent every month to the landlord. Well, let me amend that a little bit. You can learn how to make other people rich. Other than that, not much can be learned there.”
Unless someone has paid ca$h for their house, same can be said about the $800 or likely even more of interest paid to the bank…
I’d like to chime in. I was at a conference many years and was blabbing with another guy who was about my age and had a daughter like me (they were around 10-12 years old at the time). We were joking around about how bad the teenage years would be and various worries about driving, doing stupid things, etc. One thing he said really stuck in my mind. He had come back from the fighting in Iraq with a bomb disposal unit. The soldiers he commanded were not much older than the age I was worried about. He said these “kids” were making life-or-death decisions all the time and that when you give them responsibility, they’ll take it. It’s something I try to remember these days (we’re at the age of concern!).
@GoNoles85 – give your son the responsibility, he’ll take it.
Muchas gracias for the stories and perspectives. Love them good or bad (meaning in my corner or not). Regarding 23M learning how to budget. He already knows that. No big deal. Aim higher, folks. He already lives off campus, already cooks, already pays his own rent, etc.
Paying $800 to the LL is a waste of money.
Paying a $550 per month mortgage on a $325,000 house that only has a $150,000 mortgage because of a large downpayment is different because when you buy a house you build equity with each payment.
FYI.
So he will have a post college budget but it will be about assets and big things not whether to buy Roman Noodles again. It is almost funny to me all the follow the herd advice and then a few weeks later we will have countless threads about millennials in debt and living paycheck to paycheck. I earned my way up the ladder and learned whatever I learned at the School of Hard Knocks and there is no point making either one of my sons go down that road. I am probably not making sense unless you know our specific situation, which is hard to relate on a message board, but anyone can be average. It takes no effort whatever to be average. I want my kids to reach a little higher and in some cases that means I have to make “suggestions.”
Regarding requiring him to work out and eat right. Like I said, no issues there. That is a core principle built in from long ago. He loves working out and he a100% agrees with me about diet and health issues. Both my sons and I have had multiple conversations about what we see other people eat (cousins, friends, etc.) and how many people do not work out and we are 100% in agreement that it doesn’t take that much effort to do something active 2-3 hours a week or more whether it is in a gym, on a court, or in the garage.
Regarding the Love & Cookies approach to parenting, we see the comparative results once again in cousins, their friends, my friend’s kids, etc. and let me just say the Love & Cookies approach to parenting has some downsides also. I won’t give you multiple examples from my personal experiences so use your own. And I am not preaching either. My approach to parenting, as much as it might offend you, has been working for me so far. There are plenty of high achieving parents and kids here so you don’t need to hear me toot my own horn. You don’t care and neither do I; not why I come here. My sons get a 50-50 balance because my wife is Love & Cookies and I’m get off the couch and tell me what your plans are for today. It ends up being a balanced approach.
Regarding the girl. His latest are-you-kidding-me-you-are-madly-and-blindly-in love-again-dear-God-in-Heaven-do we have to go through this every six months. I am wrong, I am crazy, lord help me, yes I need alcholol. I can’t even spell it. Partially because tax season ended and partially because love can’t be controlled.
Maybe the thread is done. As mentioned. this is just venting (which is great) not actually seeking advice, just seeking to be right (which is OP’s right, but now we’re just arguing around the drain)
Wow, gonotes, you are certainly convinced that your parenting style is THE reason your sons have grown up well and that those other styles result in loser kids. I actually understood your points to some extent until your last post. There are many reasons kids may not follow a typical path or be successful. Really bad parenting can be one. But many parents with super successful kids were love and cookies parents and some parents who were on their kids all the time have the kid that goes off the path.
That being said, it is expensive to live on your own in many cities on a starting salary. Living at home for a while makes financial sense, if the job is commutable. You can make the offer but it is ultimately up to the kid and to retain your relationship, you can give your opinion, but then let him decide.
“Paying a $550 per month mortgage on a $325,000 house that only has a $150,000 mortgage because of a large downpayment is different because when you buy a house you build equity with each payment.”
You can help him with a down payment regardless of where he is living or who he chooses to live with.
My parents and in-laws gave us money for a down payment. I’m sure we will give S money towards a down payment when the time comes.
Well, after reading your last post, I don’t think you ever really were interested in exchange of ideas as you suggested in more than one of your posts. It seems you simply wanted validation of your positions.
Your son and you have “argued” repeatedly about this. He clearly senses that accepting your offers comes at a high price that he is wisely hesitant to pay.
I have no problem with kids living at home for a while to save $$, or even with your offers to “help” so much as your stance that being a father gives you the right to demand, insist, meddle, interfere, etc. for as long as you feel like it under the guise of just wanting your kids to be successful (on your terms). That’s dangerous business.
If you raise sons who over time become content (or at least resigned) to being managed by their father for most of their life (no matter how rich and successful Dad is), you may one day realize that wasn’t necessarily a result that was good for anyone but you.