Kids Living at Home After College

Parent Cafe
81

I don’t agree with your parenting style at all.

My kids are older than yours and incredibly successful in all the ways you seem to measure success, in spite of being parenting very differently than yours. So maybe there is more than one correct way to parent. There is certainly more than one kind of kid. When my sons finished their undergraduate degrees, I quit giving them advice unless they asked.

There was one exception: husband and I thought San Francisco wasn’t a great career move for one. We created a spread sheet showing cost of living comparisons for different job offer locales right after he finished his PhD. He went to SF. Husband and I were so very wrong. We learned our lesson.

82

One last point and then I’m going to leave this thread to others because I think I’m now talking (typing?) in circles.

You said

What’s worked in the past may not work now or in the future because young people grow and develop.

Think back to when your sons were very young. Do you remember having gates in your house so that they couldn’t fall down the stairs? Do you remember when you had to strap them into a stroller or keep a tight grip on them when you went out so that they wouldn’t run into the street?

And then, as time went on, your approach to parenting changed because their developmental stage changed. They learned how to go up and down the stairs safely, and therefore you took down the gates. Their minds matured enough so that they could understand the importance of not running into the street, and therefore you allowed them to walk down the street without being physically restrained.

It’s time for your approach to parenting to change again. Your sons – particularly the older one – are entering a new stage in life. You wouldn’t use stair gates and strollers to restrain a 9-year-old. You know that this wouldn’t be developmentally appropriate. Similarly, it is not developmentally appropriate to relate in the same way to a 23-year-old as you would to a 14-year-old.

83

Again, for what it’s worth, I found the experience to be totally different in college and out of it. One is “should I live in the luxury student housing near campus for $1k, or the more sensible apartment near campus for $660. I’ll live in the cheaper place and live modestly. Hooray, good budgeting!” The other is “should I take this job I really love for 46k, or this job I don’t like for 65k, and now I have two months to find an apartment in Manhattan where there’s a vacancy rate of about .01% and I need to navigate this landscape of broker fees and “flex apartments,” and oh crap every listing I love is off the market the next day, and I need to figure out a location - should I consider an outer borough? Can I deal with a sixth floor walkup? How far of a commute can I really handle? Should I factor in where my friends are living, or can I start a new social life for myself in a different neighborhood? This elevator building is awesome, but I’d save $200 a month if I lived in this grimier place. And do I want to be at this job forever, anyway? What if I move to a location downtown next year? But my apartment is nowhere near the social scene or either potential job location, is that okay, too?”

Yes, it’s much much harder and it’s incredibly annoying and frustrating, but it’s nothing like supporting yourself on a college campus. Your view is that you don’t want your kid to deal with it, so you’ll pay for him to avoid the whole thing, but my perspective is I’m glad I did it because now I know what I’m doing, what it entails, and what I’m ready for.

84

Where do you find a place for $800? My kid pays almost twice as much. It’s not crappy but close to crappy and not conveniently located. I offered to help but she’s trying out “struggling” young adult thing.

You all sounds like wise parents. I find it hard to watch from sideline.

85

I appreciate different parenting styles. What works for one kid and one family may not work with another. Some of the suggestions and bribes I offered to my kids…(I’m a love and cookies parent with the thought that carrots give results better than sticks), people would think I’m crazy. My kids have never been grounded or punished a day in their lives, though they have listened to a lot of lectures and gotten some scary looks. Perhaps the worst thing they ever did to us was slam some doors a couple of times, we argue very rarely. I think the best plan is to figure out what is working, and if something isn’t working anymore, be willing to change your strategy.

Yay to tax day being over! Though the only taxes I did were my sons (apparently I’m still an overinvolved parent). I get to wait till October to get mine done, to delay the pain.

86

I should probably go back and reread my posts on this thread. I repeatedly thanked other points of view either way. I guess I did that on another thread. Lawyers argue, as in, make their case in advocacy for their clients and their positions. Argue does not always mean something ugly it also means make your case. Part of planning and critical thinking is the ability to make an argument one way or the other.

On this thread, when people have asked me this or that, I’ve replied on point. Nothing wrong with that. That does not make me not open to or thankful for the input one way or the other. I have, more than once, said on this, and other threads, that there is more than one way to success and more than one way to parent so I don’t think I am the one who can’t see the other side of the street. I’ve haven’t said anyone’s kids are losers but I did say my kids benefitted from a blended approach since my wife is L&C.

My kids get to make their own decisions. I put in my $.02. I do not stand on the sidelines and watch. I participate and, as mentioned before, suggest, counsel, guide etc. etc. etc. whatever words you choose. Semantics.

So, in summary, I hope everyone is having a good Easter Sunday and TY again for the thoughts and stories good, bad or otherwise. One last thought. Don’t hurt yourselves patting yourselves on the back, some of you, for “teaching” your kids how to budget by letting them pay for everything. That is so grand of you. What a great lesson. Next week we can all learn about poverty. If you’ve the means, it is fine to help out string or no strings, that part is up to you. You can also give your money to charity or … I won’t finish the joke, I am sure the humor would be lost on some of you here.

87

^^^^Well, fate played a fantastic joke on us as far as making our kids start with nothing. It was truly unintentional. Many years ago, we established a trust that was intended to generate funds to pay for college. DH is an amazing real estate investor. The trust purchased properties with the thought that they would sell as the kids went through elementary and middle school, leaving little to nothing for us to contribute. Wrong. The main property sat and sat because a promised highway did not materialize. When we drew up the trust, we apparently expected the trust to be empty or almost empty by the time they turned 25.

No, the highway was delayed until recently, when the property finally sold, to 10 times the initial investment. The trust gives all the money to the girls, starting at age 25, to be given in intervals until 35. There is nothing we can do about it; the money is legally theirs with no provisions for reimbursing Mom and Dad.

So, our kids will not be starting life after college impoverished. But we are not going to dictate or try to strong arm them into doing what we want them to do with the funds, nor dangling a carrot of more assistance conditional on any particular thing. We’ll see if all of our lessons/lectures/guidance has taken hold. While it’s a lot of money, it’s a fraction of what will be left them when DH and I go, so we see this as their opportunity to practice.

D1 got her first disbursement and immediately bought CDs with it. We knew she would do something like that, though we thought she might set aside a chunk of it for travel. She said she is currently pretending it doesn’t exist. She may ask for DH’s assistance in the future as to how to make it grow, but she wanted to mull that over for a year or so first.

I don’t think I’ve read anything here that suggests it’s a bad thing to help adult children, whether it’s financial or otherwise. The differences lie in how it’s offered, what conditions, if any, exist, and the changing role of parents as their offspring navigate adulthood that seem to generate the conflicts of opinion on this thread.

88

There’s a huge world between demanding your children live with you under x, y, z conditions and letting them live under a bridge and starve.

I already have a house and all that despite starting out with nothing. I’m only a few years older than your son. I would’ve loved to have had some starter money but that just wasn’t in the cards.

That said, I wouldn’t take starter money from a parent given the number of strings that seem to be attached.

89

True. Lots of room for middle ground. Just as there is plenty of ground between “neglectful and won’t help my children” and “meddling and demanding/helicoptering.” People tend to talk about these subjects as being very black and white, but the reality is life is more gray.

90

OP, you may have tuned out, but if not…

You sound like my dad and my H. My dad was (and would like to still be) very controlling. He loved us, but he wanted to/wants to manage us too much. The result has been us kids avoiding him. We can be with him, but in small doses. One brother joined the army to not be beholden. I wish I had had the cajones to do that. Instead after four years of college fighting I went to a law school where I could pay my own way so I wouldn’t have to negotiate or be told no when I wanted to do something dad didn’t agree with. Our father/daughter moment of truth came when he wanted a meeting to talk about which law job I should take graduation. He wanted me to take the one in my hometown so I could live at home. I wanted the one far away. He started to form the words “I am paying your tuition, so I do have a say” when I said “but you don’t. I have lived in poverty for three years to be able to fund it myself.” He said “you are right.” That wasn’t the end of his telling me what to do, but he knew he had no control.

(As an aside, my own kids think it is hilarious. My pop will ask how I am driving somewhere, say “no, no, that’s the worst way to go” and offer a different route. Or he will take us out to eat, ask what I want to order, give me a pained look and tell me the special is better, and order me that. It IS funny now that I am independent and can leave for home when I have had too much, but it wasn’t funny when I was younger.)

My dad was surprisingly good about not interfering in my love life. He had his favorites, he did try to set my up with his med students, but he didn’t criticize my (sometimes crazy) choices. I do try to emulate his model in that area. Some of those BFs were just phases, and it made sense for dad to be patient and let me figure out what I wanted.

H is also controlling, but in a more subtle way. He is well off and well connected and wants to set the kids up in jobs, to use his influence. The kids don’t want it. They want to make their own way. And often they are not interested in the positions dad can offer. It hurts his feelings when the kids turn him down. H is more controlling and opinionated when it comes to relationships, though. He does freak out over every new GF and fears the boys will marry this one. I am not sure any girl will ever be good enough. I try to remind H that he himself married late after dating a lot of girls, to give his kids the benefit of the doubt. The bottom line is that all these efforts to control almost grown children cause the kids to avoid their dad. They don’t want to be criticized or controlled.

It isn’t easy. I have to take a deep breath and think how to respond to what my kids say. I remind myself that I was in my twenties once and had similar thoughts. Post #74 really resonates with me. We live in a military town and I see my kids’ friends go into the service and pow, fully adult, not fighting over where to live or what job to take.

91

Heck, and I thought I WAS a helicopter parent!

OP, I was surprised at how many times you use in your posts: **I, ME, MY, **when discussing your son.
Everyone here knows you are successfully patting yourself on the back, but I have to agree with the previous posters that you are choking the relationship with your son. Forcing your “kid” to do what YOU want does not make your “child” successful; he constantly has to look over his shoulder to see if you’re there to critic his choices. What a horrible way to live!

@Marian posted:

You haven’t metaphorically removed the gates!

Why should it be a city that you approve of? This is called a “string”.
Are you saying your child isn’t smart enough to figure out a budget or a plan? That’s what it sounds like. You don’t trust that your son can make a rational adult decision? This sounds really sad to me. You’re the rescuer and his salvation? Why? What are you missing, in your life, that you feel the need to run his? Your wife, “gets it”.

Making your son appear weak and incapable of making his own decisions is really debilitating. Employers don’t like that. You’ll argue with him because you don’t like a particular city, or SO? Wow!
Why should you approve of whom he gets to date and fall in love with? Os this also your decision? You have to make sure she exercises and eats according to your plan? You want to be sure of her height, coloring, political views?

What the heck is a “love and cookies” approach? I’ve been strict with my children all of their lives, but now that they are all adults, they make their own decisions. When they need advice, they are smart enough to ask either my husband, myself, or a trusted “adult”. We give them our opinions and they choose. That’s the common theme I see from all of the previous posters.

Those of us who are allowing our adult children to be independent and letting them fly on their own are seeing a beautiful thing. Our sons and daughters are making us really proud, otherwise, we wouldn’t be on this website. Our daughter bought her own property without a penny of help from us. She asked us for advice, and we presented her with multiple options. She lived at home after graduation, without strings (except laundry and letting us know if she’d be out of town), saved up her money for a down payment, and bought her condo. She learned everything on her own and is still learning; she still comes over every weekend to ask us our opinions on everything. I thought adults were supposed to do that?

92

OP, there is no reason to be insulting to other posters who have different values than yours. Some of us value hard work and independence in our kids more than others, and that is ok. When I was in college I briefly dated the heir to a great American fortune. A name everyone in the US would immediately recognize. In the summers his parents made him work at manual labor. Difficult, demanding work that they (and he) thought had important character lessons. I admire them, but I understand not everyone follows the same path. I hope your sons get to become the men they (and not you) want to be and manage when you are gone. Good luck.

93

Those are rather ironic statements. You tell him not to be insulting to other posters… and then you insult him. I am dead certain that the OP values hard work and independence in his children.

As far as this thread overall–when someone lays it all out there in an honest way, and people disagree, it would be far more useful to offer suggestions and commentary in a positive fashion. Sometimes people just want to talk things out and not get a lot of negative criticism. Implying what an awful and controlling father he must be, or how he’s doing it totally wrong and we are doing it so much better and how his kids will grow up to hate him…not useful. When people are made to feel defensive, any advice you give them will be rejected.

I stand by the advice that I used to give my friends about parenting their young children (or teenagers), when they asked. Just don’t kill them. Anything else is gravy. Just don’t kill em. Seriously. %-(

94

@GoNoles85

I have a married kid who owns a home with spouse (and bank). My kid knows more about buying houses than I do. There’s this thing called the “break even point.” You have to live somewhere for that long for it to make more sense to buy than rent. In NYC it’s currently calculated at 4 years. In the city where my married kid lives it’s longer.

So…according to experts it makes sense to pay rent until you are certain --or as certain as you can be in life–that you’re going to want to stay in place for at least X time. If you can’t, it’s better to rent.

Plus, owning can bring headaches. My married kid and spouse were watching TV a week before their first child was due. Spouse noticed spot on ceiling. Touched it. Yep, wet. There was a leak. The plumber came in to find it. Had to rip out old pipe. Pieces of floor/ceiling on floor below were crashing down. The end result was they had to install a completely new bathroom. This was an expense they hadn’t foreseen. As a renter, it’s the landlord’s problem.

They got Direct TV. The TV guy took pictures of the roof and said “You better get that fixed or you’re going to have a serious problem.” He didn’t recommend anyone, and seemed to be sincerely just trying to help them. So, they shopped around and got the roof repaired. Roofers all said they couldn’t wait to fix it.

Kid and spouse aren’t good at the DIY stuff but spouse’s father is. He came to visit for a few weeks at Christmas time and spend much of his day while the kids were at work fixing things in the house and garden. The back staircase outside was particularly treacherous and he put in new supports. Long distance he had explained how to mix and pour concrete so the kids were able to fix the front steps themselves. The local hardware store charges a bit more but the kids pay the prices gladly to get someone to explain what to do. The toilet clogged when I was visiting and I asked the kids if they had a snake. They didn’t know what I was talking about. To the hardware store. Owner showed them how to use it. It worked! That saved calling the plumber and they’ve used it several times.

Maybe your S is good at DIY. If he isn’t, it’s really hard to deal with issues in a house if you’re working long hours at your job.

Anyway…the point of my post is just to explain that the experts say that sometimes it makes more economic sense to rent rather than buy.

95

Yes to hard work, but I don’t think the OP values independence, at least as most people would define it.

96

I don’t think that offering opinions, support and talking things through means that one doesn’t value independence.

I’ve seen people refuse to pay for their kid’s college (though they are wealthy), under the guise of “independence”, leaving the child in tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Kids stuck in terrible housing and job situations under the mantra of “independence”, though the parents were extremely well off. Offering help and advice is generally not a bad thing. The kids can choose to take it or not

97

I was just about to make jonri’s point. Many people in their early 20’s will be moving around to different jobs, if not to different cities or states or countries. They may have employers who may offer temporary postings at satellite locations, even overseas. They may decide to return to school for further degrees (even after a masters). Being able to be flexible is of tremendous value. That applies to possessions (e.g. not buying quality furniture, or a huge quantity of it either) and investments (e.g. keep squirreling away funds, and don’t tie up your non-retirement savings in illiquid assets).

Living at home will of course allow the piggybank to fill faster. It will make eventual homeownership easier. If your S is interested in staying in the area and is looking forward to home ownership, more power to him. If he’s considering different career options, or is in a field where you need to be ready to jump when opportunities arise, then you do him no favors by pushing him towards home ownership as quickly as possible.

98

There are just so many paths and so many different relations reflected in this thread and CC. It is amazing to know that somehow most of our kids grow up just fine with and sometimes without our well-meaning help that sometimes MAY be helpful while other times can be actually hindering what we and our kids desire.

I wish the very best to everyone as they navigate their relationships with their young adults.

99

@droppedit

Since my father was too young to be conscripted to do his 2 years of military service in the ROC(Taiwan) during the early '50s when he started college(started at 16), he ended up doing his mandatory service in the army after undergrad.

At the time, anyone who opted to start their military service after college(provided one qualified for admission) was given the option of doing so as a commissioned officer(Mostly infantry) after a short officer training course during one’s undergrad years(Think ROTC of sorts except mandatory for all college males who hadn’t completed their service obligation before starting college).

When he graduated at 20, he was put in charge of an infantry platoon of ~40-50 conscripts…many of whom were around his age or older and NCOs who were grizzled war veterans from the 30’s and 40’s old enough to be his father/uncie. He also entered the army during a period when the ROC was in actual danger of imminent invasion from a much larger neighbor so he had to not only take part in, but also work with those NCOs/superior officers and US military advisers to organize and run frequent military training drills/exercises to ensure his platoon was ready to fight if needed.

When he completed his service obligation 2 years later, he was 22, the same age as many traditionally aged college seniors in the US. And since he completed his service obligation just months before the 1958 Taiwan Crisis, if that crisis had continued longer than it did, he’d have been recalled back in, possibly be promoted 1-2 grades due to shortage of infantry officers back then, and possibly take part in the fighting had Mao’s regime actually gone through with an all-out invasion.

100

Ugh. I have a 30 year old S living at home.

He has issues obviously. Just Ugh!