@mstomper – I was thinking of posting something similar the other day. Our D18 basically hates high school because her social life is a disaster. She has managed to maintain an UW 4.0 so far but that was after scrambling last year to bring two 85s in the first semester up to 95s for the second semester. She is stressed out because she isn’t interested in the work and procrastinates until the last minute, barely makes it to school in time (multiple tardies), spends hours on her phone/computer tracking music groups, etc. All that stresses my wife, who’s a total “git 'er done” type when it comes to education and can’t understand the procrastination. The past few years have been unpleasant, to say the least.
Like you, this problem definitely came from my genetic contribution. I became completely uninterested in school sometime in HS and eventually dropped out of college. Fortunately, this was right at the beginning of the PC revolution and I was a programmer, so things worked out fine. After seeing D’s trajectory and mentality, I talked her into taking AP Computer Science Principles to see if that would get her interested in programming because I think that’s the only profession that is compatible with her “lifestyle” (and only a subset of programming is suitable). The class is incredibly easy for her (avg is >95) but I don’t see much interest in it yet. I think they do some lightweight coding in the second semester so we’ll have to see if that changes things.
I would prefer for her to get a few Bs and have fun in life but, no, she “has to get good grades to get into a good college”.
As much as I don’t want to believe it, I suspect that for some kids (I include my young self here) nothing could realistically keep school from being boring. With the advent of high stakes testing and Common Core, I think it’s more true now. I’ve worked as a school librarian for twelve years now. Lots of students say coming to the library is their favorite part of school. A good number also say that library and PE are the only parts of the school day they like. Can I say I raise test scores or make kids more career/college ready? Probably not. I can say I’ve helped a lot of kids hang on to their natural curiosity than they would have otherwise. To me the school library is a refuge for students who see school as drudgery.
Like it or not, the path to becoming a productive member of society often requires learning/doing a lot of boring stuff. If someone can get where they want to be without making top grades and going to a “good” college, then more power to them. That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t value learning, it just means they don’t value school.
@droppedit, my social life was a disaster until age 30. That was on top of not liking my classes. I can’t wrap my head around her wanting to go to a “good school” if she doesn’t really want to do the work. Our S18 thought he wanted to be in a competitive program at his high school, but he got out of it halfway through his sophomore year. It just wasn’t a match for a kid who never liked school. We were proud of him for being able to get in, but we wish he had gotten out sooner. He has off the charts writing/verbal skills, but lacks the super fast processing speed that lets people like S16 and myself breeze through. He has to work harder, which is unfortunate for someone who really dislikes the work.
Welcome to our world! She has caviar dreams and hamburger helper execution/attitude yet she’s dead set on going to a high-end college. We’ll know more about the future in a few weeks when we get the PSAT and ACT scores back. She did a couple of hours prep the night before each test … which was a significant improvement over last year, when she did zero prep (her public HS has all sophomores take the PSAT … and we decided to have her take an ACT as well just to demystify it).
My older daughter loved school from the beginning. My younger one would say she Hated it. But she always did the work and when I’d tell her teachers she didn’t like school they were always shocked. She never acted out in any way. Always did well and is generally a happy upbeat person. One of the reasons she chose nursing was that there’s relatively little classroom work compared with most majors. And she likes the hands on nature of the job.
My youngest hates to be made to do anything he doesn’t want to do, which is a large part of school, hence hatred for school. But there’s sparks of brilliance and magic when he wants to do what the teachers require–when his attention is grabbed, he’s all in. It doesn’t even matter if it’s hard or tedious if he wants to do it. The social side of things has always been a mixed bag but he seems comfortable. He has finally, mostly, come around to the necessity of cooperating with school and doing the work (not just the (in his opinion) super interesting fascinating creative magical work assigned by the most engaging amazing magical genius teachers) for the purpose of achieving his own goals and keeping his life options open.
I’d say the above is true for my other kids too, but in a less overly dramatic fashion.
The boy of our boy/girl oldest twins never liked school, even when he was very young. He loved reading, but mostly scientific journals and technical publications. He always thought school was a waste of time and did the minimum to graduate. He is not an auditory learner at all. He always loved and still does love any hands on activity, being outside, and something that keeps him on the move. He is quite bright- he could take apart anything and rebuild it to a better state even when quite small. He did take a lot of GE college classes over a period of several years, and then finally buckled down and finished his last 2 years in Construction Management with a 4.0. He finally found something he loved! He worked for a couple of very large commercial constr. companies for a while and loved the wide variety of tasks, the hands on stuff and a lot of outdoor time. He finally started his own company and is doing quite well.
Our younger son has always loved school-almost everything about it! However, I agree with someone upstream- my son was an avid reader from a young age but almost hated reading by the time he finished high school due to the piles of required reading.
@HSP2019, I see a lot of truth in the article. I certainly saw school as a prison when I was a kid. I bet a lot of inmates in prisons also look forward to their library time. Anyone who figures out how to make school less prison-like for a significant number of kids should have their statue erected all across the land.
From 2nd grade until 8th, my son said, quote: “I never learn anything new. I just learn different ways of doing the same thing.” He finally became moderately interested when he did Esrth Science. But if he had his way, he would never go.
Same with my two daughters. Both are bright and do well in school but hated just about every second of it. I loved school for the most part so it’s not hereditary. I also teach elementary school so I see it from that side too.
I think a lot of the apathy and disdain is due to the push to shove the curriculum down their throats and not focus on connecting the learning to their lives. I’m not sure how Algebra can be taught that way, but an engaging teacher certainly helps. The one class I recall my D19 loving was a 6th grade social studies class because her teacher loved the Civil War and was able to share his love with the students so much that she loved learning about it. Sadly though that never happened again in her remaining middle and hs years.
She likes her college experience so far and I think that’s due to the fact she’s majoring in visual
art which is her passion. But most kids have difficulty finding one so that’s when apathy about school takes over which is what I’m seeing with my D13. She abhors everything about school, but she gets good grades because she likes doing well. But she can’t stand every class she takes. It’s disconcerting.
I think one of the biggest issues as many has touched on is that public education in this country basically sucks and is getting worse. And then most students are meant to fit into that one type of learner. One thing I read about our public education is that there is a hierarchy of things it values starting with Math and Language Arts at the top to things like dance at the bottom. Every kid has talent or can excel at different things but if it’s not the things that the school values then s/he probably isn’t going to be happy there.
My D attends a special-admit high school with a project-based curriculum. Basically it’s no tests - all projects. Collaboration and lots of freedom of what projects to do. I’ve never been in a school with so many happy students. Not every kid wants to attend this school but it’s a great fit for many students. Having different types of curricula for different types of students would go a long way in making happier students. The city has a Creative and Performing Arts school. I’m sure those kids that have talent in dance really like attending that school over the traditional, homework heavy, AP rat-race school.
The traditional mode of public education is out-dated. It was designed to produce workers for the new industries of the 19th century with basic math skills and the ability to read instructions.
mstomper, I can relate to your own story, and doubt there is any genetic component that trickled down. And you seem to have done quite well in the end, which provides a wonderful role model.
I love to learn but hated school and the post about “freedom” certainly resonates, as immature as that may sound for a 60 something who has lived life!
I think the biggest problems with schools are that they are driven by external motivators. Even teaching staff forget the point isn’t grades, it’s learning, and being able to function in the world. I think kids with strong internal motivation, who are essentially very healthy, can chafe at these imposed motivators.
Pizza for reading points. Popsicles for good behavior on field trips. Report cards and honor rolls. College admissions is really just another external motivator.
I think the best thing we can do as parents is downplay the external motivators and support the authentic interests of our kids. I tried this consciously. Did it work- not really! Two out of three still hated school (both love to work and have good jobs!) The third is in a PhD program and loving every minute of it. She jokes that she rebelled by being ambitious!
There’s a major difference between those that may not like school, but follow the path and keep up their grades enough to go to a great college, and those that hate it enough that they don’t “live up to their potential”. One of mine hated school so much he always was right on the edge of missing too many days to finish the year (had to go on the last half days of school after finals when nobody went). College did not change that and he is currently on an extended break, working and doing well at work and may have enough of a career path that he won’t need to finish. But I am still hopeful. I have accepted that it is his life, but still stings to see a very smart kid turn his back on an education his parents were funding. So many kids don’t have that option.
Neither DH or I hated school. But some of the reasons that ds hated school probably have a genetic component in terms of focus.
@mom2and, I certainly missed a lot of school. I missed more than 4 weeks 1st and 2nd grade, and usually missed 10 days or so every other year. Senior year I missed 10 consecutive days due to a mysterious ailment that was probably psychosomatic. I made the decision after being accepted to a couple of colleges that I didn’t want to go to college. A few months of cleaning off tables at a restaurant changed that. I didn’t find college difficult, but was on the verge of dropping out a couple of times because I was bored out of my mind by most of my classes. I tried starting a Master’s program in history, but I quickly realized that there was no way I wanted to pursue any topic in that degree of depth. I graduated because the work was very easy for me. Did being challenged help? Not really. I guess it was a fair trade, going through years of being bored out of my mind in exchange for having an interesting career.
I very much disliked my middle and high school years (despite doing fairly well academically). I felt like I had little control over my life, which really irritated me. College, on the other hand, was a completely different ball game… loved it immensely. It was a 180-degree experience for me, and I ultimately ended up with a Masters in Engineering.
Moral of the story here: don’t judge a child’s outcome in life based on his/her views of high school. High school life is tough on some kids, especially those who are more independent and tend to be free-thinkers. These kids will often thrive in a college setting where they have more flexibility over their lives.
High School academics are not fun for most students. You are in the process of building a foundation that will allow you focus more in college but the general nature of the studies requires you to focus on things that you do not enjoy / do not feel you are good at. Most professionals are good at one particular thing and make a living doing it. If your child dreads school, which some do, ask them what they are going to do with their life. Tell them low-skilled individuals lead a very tough life.
It is not surprising that math and language arts are considered highly important in school, because it is more difficult to learn other subjects if one is weak in those areas.
Which show the limitations of traditional public education. Doesn’t mean that math and language arts skills should be ignored even by those not talented in those areas but if they are also enriched in the areas that they are talented and excel then it’ll improve their perspective on the subjects they struggle.
This is a tough one. How does one decide where to draw the line on college costs. Do you just send him off to a CC and then a LSC? Or do you allow him/her to reach higher? Would parents here object to handing over $100K + of your hard earned money to a child who really does not care? Would this “does not care” attitude carryover to the workplace? Will that person grow up to me the one who does the minimum? Never volunteers for extra? Is not the one who comes in first and leaves last? These are really tough choices for a parent.
