My twins just had their 23rd birthday. Like most of our collective kids, they want for absolutely nothing.
I came up with the idea of treating them to an indoor skydiving place that recently opened in our area, and they’ll do it when they’re next both together in our town (as they are in different cities). They were both delighted and I am quite sure it will be a nice brother-sister memory with great pictures. What on earth could possibly be wrong with that?
Eh, @frugaldoctor is in the minority on this particular child-rearing issue. We’d probably all have something that seems strange if we described our overall approaches.
The "difference"f for me is spoiled (giving stuff to your kids that you resent purchasing because they threaen to hold their breath until they receive it). Never good. Entitled? subtle difference. Our kids, and their friends, work VERY hard. They "know what they want and work for it. And we don’t resent giving…because they have worked hard.
Well, I don’t know. I think having worked hard may sometimes also be related to an entitled attitude. We see that on CC all the time: “I worked extremely hard in high school, and now I’m being denied the opportunity to attend the college I want. No fair!”
I think an entitled attitude can come from misinformation–it can come from parents (“we’ll make it work somehow”), from a college (“anybody can attend here, regardless of financial need”), or even from society (“follow your dreams”). Sometimes I think we may be faulting students for believing what they’ve been taught.
@Madison85 I think providing items on “special days” become an expectation to receive things on those days often with disregard to any of the efforts taken to afford the gifts. What would happen if you just didn’t give a birthday or Christmas gift one year? Could you have a Christmas or birthday in which you showered your children with hugs, kisses and love. Would that go over well without handing the expected gift? I think most kids who are used to receiving gifts would not be too pleased regardless of the circumstances.
I don’t see anything wrong with parents providing gifts for their children’s birthdays or Christmas. This is just not the philosophy we chose to raise our children.
@frugaldoctor What happens on your child’s birthday? Is it ignored? No cake? No special meal? Is there a wish for “Happy Birthday,” and then …nothing?
And how did you not “tolerate” tantrums?
“I think providing items on “special days” become an expectation to receive things on those days often with disregard to any of the efforts taken to afford the gifts. What would happen if you just didn’t give a birthday or Christmas gift one year? Could you have a Christmas or birthday in which you showered your children with hugs, kisses and love. Would that go over well without handing the expected gift”
Sure. Or sometimes the gift is “decoupled” from the actual day. My kids really don’t seem to have “expectations.” They already know they are privileged and both are grateful for what they have.
Are you imagining that we say, “Here’s your gift, kid. Now take a hike.” Actually, we showered our kids with love every day–and on their birthdays, they also got presents. If you do something else special for the birthday kid, then maybe that’s just as good as a present.
@Hunt, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that you do everything for them as you described. But what happens if you just can’t provide that birthday or Christmas gift or that expensive tuition or paying for that wedding? How will yours or most kids who experienced all of the good things you described. These are seen as entitlements by most, and hopefully not all, kids.
During my HS and college years, I did find more entitled attitudes among classmates from upper/upper-middle class homes…especially during my undergrad years. However, most tend to outgrow it as they get pushback from classmates, teachers/Profs, workplace supervisors, and others in their daily lives.
The few who don’t tend to have serious issues post-school whether it was more senior colleagues from upper/upper-middle class environments who felt entitled to replace their entire furniture/interiors/cars/electronics set every 3-6 months and then hit up everyone for a loan when they are caught short despite making 6 figure incomes…including trying to hit up loans from junior colleagues like yours truly…or those who end up burning bridges with supervisors/Profs, friends, and yes…even extended family members because of their overly demanding argumentative attitudes.
As for birthday/Christmas gifts, my immediately family did their best to provide, but weren’t able to for most of my latter childhood/teen years due to financial constraints…and we all understood that. Parents still feel bad about that along with not being able to pay for college even though I tried reassuring them that they shouldn’t feel bad because they were doing the best they could under difficult circumstances.
Only odd part about the culture of Christmas/birthday gifts was that it was viewed as something for kids defined as someone who hadn’t reached the age of 18 or graduated high school…whichever came first. As a result, I stopped receiving such gifts at 17 because that was when I graduated HS, started college, and was thus, considered an “adult”.
Well, if you can’t provide it, then the family has to face the hard times together, just as it did the good times.
I certainly don’t think kids should get everything they want–but that’s not the same as trying to get them used to deprivation when it isn’t necessary.
Gifts don’t have to be expensive. One of my son’s favorite gifts was a silly mug his sister had made for him. I believe it cost about $10, but it had an expression on it that was a shared joke between them. Every time he pulls it out it reminds him and the rest of us of their joke and makes us think of the event that precipitated it. My favorite wedding gift was a pair of wine glasses a friend had a fellow artist make in exchange for a couple of hours of labor. Gifts can be as simple as a handwritten poem or copying a playlist of favorite songs.
My kids are FAR from deprived. I wish I lived their lives with half of what they have. But to ask that they do without gifts for 2 days out of 365 days of the year is beyond reasonable for our family. I am learning that this is deprivation for others. That is fine for those who regard those days as essential.
But what do people regard as entitlements? Parents paying for their daughter’s weddings, gifts, tuition, etc.? I just want to get an idea of what people consider entitlements.
@frugaldoctor If you don’t mind me asking - how will you handle the very common entitlement of inheritance? Will you and your spouse leave it all to charity and your kids will expect and receive $0 upon your deaths?
I grew up with parents who had to worry about every dime and I started working in jr high (babysitting) and have been working ever since. By high school was buying my own clothes. But we still got presents on our birthdays and Christmas. Not expensive things, especially in the lean years, but a cake and a few presents were given. Maybe the difference is we did without on most of the other 363 days of the year. Not sure I understand how not celebrating birthdays or holidays, but giving them everything they want on other days, reduces entitlement.
My kids have experienced much more than I did by their age and have had much fewer “we can’t afford that” than I did. But they don’t get as much as many of their friends who were gifted with new iphones every time a new model appeared or a car once they got their drivers license.
@mom2and I definitely never said I gave my kids everything they wanted 363 days and hopefully I didn’t leave that impression. In fact, I can’t remember the last time one of my kids asked for something that wasn’t a necessity. We recently bought D2 a MacBook. It was required for school spelled out in the contract that we signed. I still can’t understand how withholding birthday and Christmas gifts is such a deprivation.
We completed our wills years ago. My wife and I have no expectations of receiving anything from our in-laws and we told our kids not to expect anything from us either. To be honest, we have no idea what we would be able to leave if anything. However, our trusts state that the assets will pay for college, grad school and one down payment for the median priced home in the city that they live. Then they receive nothing until 40. As they turn 40 they receive 1/3 of the assets. Most likely, we will amend the trust to allow limited support for extreme illnesses or disabilities.
Again, we have absolutely no idea what will be available in our estate so it wouldn’t be right for our kids to expect anything. Who knows, we might suffer illnesses ourselves wiping out all of our assets . However, if we do leave assets, this shouldn’t preclude our kids from completing their education or building careers by the time they are 40.
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But what do people regard as entitlements?
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Maybe you’re misunderstanding. The topic is really dealing with an “entitled attitude”.
That could include an expectation that:
I shouldn’t have to do any chores, even if that means everyone else has to clean up after me.
I shouldn’t have to drive the family “hand me down” car; I should get a new one that will impress my friends.
I should get an expensive education, even if that means that my parents retirement won’t be funded or they’ll have to take out large loans.
I shouldn’t have to use a “dumb” phone; I should have the latest smart phone.
I shouldn’t have to take a work-study job; I should get given that money in a grant.
I shouldn’t have to do my own hair and nails for prom; I should have a complete make-over that day at my single-mom’s low-income expense.
I shouldn’t have to get up 15 minutes earlier, even though I always keep everyone waiting while I get dressed and we’re often late.
And on and on and on.
There’s a whole lotta “I” thinking in entitlement thinking, and usually at the expense of others.
I have a good story of entitled behavior: On the first day of my job as a summer associate at a big law firm, I was working in a carrel in the firm’s library and left my books and papers spread out on the table to go to lunch. When I returned from lunch, another summer associate who had also started that day was sitting in the carrel with all my books swept to the side. When I asked him why he didn’t sit at one of many nearby carrels that were empty, he replied, “The light is better at this one.”
That about sums up entitlement in my mind!
nottelling–Wow. just wow. I would have told him to move and never take my space again.
My kids aren’t entitled to birthday gifts. That’s why they are called gifts. I think there is indeed some confusion in this discussion between actual entitlements and an entitled attitude.
I also think there is some confusion here between expectations and entitlements. On my birthday, I expect my kids to at least call me; I’ll be sad if they don’t. Is that an entitled attitude? I don’t think so. They’ve always called me on my birthday in the past, because that’s what we do in our family.