<p>I agree that study abroad is the least important reason to eliminate a college. My niece who majored in civil engineering was able to do a study abroad semester in Ireland. Tufts has extensive summer abroad programs (Not necessarily academic) for their engineers. My main concern is that he doesn’t really sound like an engineer.</p>
<p>Well, yes, study abroad is always possible - if he wants to spend his semester studying engineering (in English) in another country. But the intense course requirements for an engineering degree all but preclude doing a non-engineering semester abroad, unless he’s willing to add a semester (or a summer or two) to his studies. Summer or post-grad study abroad is probably a better option . . . if funding can be obtained.</p>
<p>What about the question of figuring out if he even wants to do engineering? Would college courses in chemistry and/or physics (who knows? he might find he likes it!) be enough to indicate whether pursuing a graduate degree in chem., electrical, or mechanical engineering might be a good idea?</p>
<p>It doesn’t sound like engineering will be his thing, but you never know. Your comments about not particularly liking physics and “10 years of successful FIRST robotics competition, primarily as lead programmer; not interested in or particularly skilled at robot design, although he helped out with that as needed” are the reasons. Problem solving is needed in so many areas. I would lean towards the LAC, but the decision should ultimately be up to him. Would the LAC allow him to take an introductory engineering course this summer at a local college or university? It would at least give him an idea of whether he has any interest. Or if he knows what area of engineering he thinks he might be interested in, could he do an internship or shadow at some companies? </p>
<p>I don’t know . . . could he do an engineering internship even if he’s not studying engineering? It sounds like a great idea, if it would be possible.</p>
<p>It would be hard to comment on this without knowing which schools you are looking at. Some schools have excellent opportunities for study aboard or joined LAC/Engineering programs. Some schools would allow double major in two different schools easily. Also, engineering is a very very board field probably even more so than “Science” majors in LAC. It is true that the job prospect is good with engineering if he decides not to pursuit med school later. However, it would also make his life really tough to keep up with good grades in engineering in order to apply to good medical schools. Engineering internship for non-engineering major is not easy to find. Very often, there are different career center for engineering students that others may not have access to it. Last, it may be easier to transfer from engineering to LAC internally than the other way around.</p>
<p>No doubt a case of “too little too late”, but some colleges offer an “International Engineering” program - like URI:</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.uri.edu/iep/”>http://web.uri.edu/iep/</a></p>
<p>Maybe can apply for the spring semester if truly interested in such an option. </p>
<p>I forgot to mention, one may do an intern aboard instead of study aboard too. I know may engineering students did that.</p>
<p>The “International Engineering” program looks interesting, but it’s apparently a 5-year program. And double majoring, although an option at the schools he’s considering, would also necessarily entail more than 8 semesters of study.</p>
<p>Someone who wants to do study abroad while studying engineering can apply to HKUST. The entire four year degree is abroad (Hong Kong), and the cost for international students is only about US$25,000 per year.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom, I think you are wrong that Swarthmore is the only LAC with engineering that retains the LAC character. My son is at Lafayette and working on a dual major Mechanical Engineering/Philosophy degree with a Music minor. There is plenty of room in the schedule to explore other fields. Additionally, the school has a stated goal of getting 100% of engineers to go abroad at some point during their academic career.</p>
<p>He should just go the LAC route. Or figure out what he wants to do. </p>
<p>Problem is, if he goes to the university and starts in the engineering program, and then changes his mind and wants to go to medical school, he might be screwed. Engineers have a low rate of acceptance to medical school due to how hard their classes are. It is much harder to make an A in calculus based physics than algebra based. And medical school does not require calculus based physics. Unlike high school, grades are not weighted in college. Therefore, medical schools are not going to be forgiving of a B in calc based physics over an A in regular physics, based on the fact that it is a harder course. They won’t care. In fact, they do not care at all what one’s major is, just what a person does with that major. A biochem major with a 3.0 and equal MCAT scores will be rejected over an art major with a 4.0. All applicants to medical school have to have a specific set of pre-requisite classes. After that, it is just GPA and MCAT scores. It is quite hard to make a high GPA in engineering. </p>
<p>Plus, look in to medical school admission rates at the colleges. Large universities with engineering programs often have lower acceptance rates. It is not that engineering is easier, it is much harder. That is why the GPAs tend to be lower. But the medical schools do not care that it is harder. They just care that the student did not earn the better grades.</p>
<p>Is your son leaning toward any direction?</p>
<p>Lehigh while not a LAC has an arts and engineering program which combines the 2 <a href=“Interdisciplinary Engineering Programs | P.C. Rossin College of Engineering & Applied Science”>P.C. Rossin College of Engineering & Applied Science | Lehigh University. Bucknell also has an engineering program with a LAC feel. </p>
<p>Dodgers mom, I would look to see if there is a 5 year program that FA would extend to 5 years. Lehigh does limit FA to 8 semesters but if you are in a 5 year program they will extend FA for 5 years. I am talking about this program <a href=“Interdisciplinary Engineering Programs | P.C. Rossin College of Engineering & Applied Science”>P.C. Rossin College of Engineering & Applied Science | Lehigh University. I am positive that those in this program get FA for 10 semesters not 8. </p>
<p>I personally would pick the engineering program as it’s easier to switch out of engineering than out. You can make a good amount of money interning and if you want to go to graduate school you can either find a job which pays or find a graduate program which will pay you. </p>
<p>I had a kid who liked chemistry but not physics and a kid who liked physics but not chemistry. The one who likes chemistry is also not one who likes to put things together or is particularly spatial. Kids are different types of engineers which play to their strengths. Both are happy and successful. </p>
<p>H thinks you can do anything with an engineering degree so I am slanted that way. </p>
<p>Add the the following LACs w/engineering to the list - Union, Trinity, Bucknell, Clarkson, Alfred, In addition to 3-2 programs, some offer 2-1-1-1 which may work well for the potential pre-med candidates who decided med is not for them and they opt to complete their last year at an engineering college. Conversely, if you get into med school you don’t have to do the 5th year cuz you already got your LAC sheepskin. In addition, we learned that 40% of juniors at some LACs spend their junior year overseas; and your budding engineer could spend their junior year at an engineering college instead of overseas. </p>
<p>Can’t add anything to the list @Burgermeister, since DS is now a senior (with a decision due in a week!), but I like the idea of spending a semester at an engineering school. Wouldn’t want him to have to give up study abroad, but perhaps it’s possible to do both!</p>
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<p>If someone pursues a BS in physics and excels during undergrad, it’s very possible to do graduate work in engineering. </p>
<p>Chemistry…not so much unless we’re talking chemical engineering or possibly materials science. </p>
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<p>To a point, yes. However, that would be dependent on type of employer/firm one works for and how proficient a given engineer is with written communication and other “soft skills”. </p>
<p>If one works in many non-technology centered firms, there may be some prejudice against employing engineering/CS folks outside their specialties or promoting them on the management track without a non-technical related secondary major or MBA due to stereotyping of them as “folks with poor written communication and people skills”. </p>
<p>While this is bogus, I’ve seen this prejudice in action at some financial firms, mass media, and from accounts of older relatives who are engineers. </p>
<p>I may be off topic; but I have hired a handful of chemical engineers over the years. In the 1990s about a third of the chem engs from UMichigan and UCalDavis went to med school, a third went to chemical industries and a third went into consulting. The large management consulting firms (e.g. Accenture) were attracted to chem engs because they understood processes and and could apply that skill to business processes. These days I feel like LAC and engineering is really the way to go. The communications skills that come with an LAC degree trump engineering skills. The first two years of engineering at a big university are just dreadful. </p>
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<p>I am only one data point, and this is only my opinion - but chemistry and chemical engineering can be very different, as disciplines and careers. I for one loved chemistry and loathed chemical engineering. I don’t know if interest in one can be extrapolated to the other…</p>
<p>Hi Dodgersmom. </p>
<p>As an engineer, I may have a slightly different take. I would say that he should probably choose the LAC. </p>
<p>You mention he liked his engineering design, likes bio and chem but not so much physics. You didn’t mention anything about math. In my opinion, math is really the key to engineering. In fact I would go so far to say is that engineering IS the art of developing mathematical models that approximate reality and then using those models to design things without actually having to build them first. I took theoretical math classes where the professor would ask who the engineers were and indicated that the engineers tended to do really well because they were used to visualizing all of this abstract stuff. Basically math is the toolbox of engineers. </p>
<p>People who don’t like physics, often don’t like math either. While design is fun and all, if he thinks that he won’t like the idea of using math as his weapon of choice, he’d probably be happier getting a broad liberal arts education with the opportunity for exploration. On the other hand, if AP Calculus was his favorite class, and he couldn’t put it down, then maybe I’d go the other way. </p>
<p>My older daughter turned down a top STEM school to study CS at a liberal arts university that is not particularly known for CS. She had too many broad interests in humanities to constrain herself to the focus of an engineering program. She did well anyway. I agree that CS is a great compromise because it’s really engineering thinking in it’s purest form. My younger daughter is pretty focused on engineering. She doesn’t really like writing papers, loves math, and is pretty sure she’s going to like what she’s getting into. She’s finishing her freshman year and is very happy so far. </p>
<p>I think that in order to really find yourself, you have to look. The LAC will give him that opportunity to look. </p>
<p>Good luck. </p>
<p>scout59 – I agree. In grad school, scientists and engineers were different. In marriage too! Scientists observe and comment. Engineers fix stuff.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom – FYI. In the old days the norm was for one third of the engineering students to drop out and they generally moved to business admin. Some would then drop out of business to “humanities”. Consequently, I had a dim view of humanities. But, I’m older now! As stated before, if you go do a 3-2 or a 2-1-1-1, all needs will be met.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad – I agree. FYI . Half the engineers (including civil, chem, mech and elect) from my fraternity became CS professionals just a few years after graduation. </p>
<p>Agree with everything doughmom said. Engineering undergrad is the hardest and can really leave scars. And if he’s weak in physics, he truly is at risk of stuggling in the intro engineering classes. A nice friendly science degree from a LAC will leave all options open.</p>