My newspaper just published the information about my region’s valedictorians and salutatorians. I couldn’t help but notice that, out of about 300 students, only one or two plan to attend LACs. And it’s not just the vals and sals. Very few students from my daughter’s high school apply to LACs, let alone attend them. My guess is less than 10 kids - maybe even less than 5 - out of the 160 or so graduating this year will be attending LACs. And when I speak to parents of high school students both in my district and other areas, including other states, most of them seem to have never heard of any school that does not have the word “University” in its name. What gives? Does anyone else notice this?
Guidance counselors in some schools, especially in more working class areas, seem to guide students toward state colleges and universities with the idea it will cost less (and they have a familiarity factor). It is too bad because many LAC’s and other privates give good financial and/or merit aid, sometimes making them more affordable than the publics.
In my area, a majority of graduates go to Pitt and Penn State, but PA and Ohio have a lot of LACs that are also included on the list. The majority do stay relatively close to home, but there is variety close by.
I’ve noticed that there seems to be more enthusiasm about LACs among private school kids than public school kids. Perhaps this reflects different attitudes of the guidance counselors?
Among the public school kids I’ve known, those who had the academic records (and money) to go to schools more selective than our state university primarily went to private universities rather than LACs: Cornell, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Penn – those sorts of schools. And some went to state universities with better academic reputations than our own. (We’re in Maryland, and Virginia and North Carolina have higher-ranked state universities.) However, many of these kids majored in liberal arts subjects at their universities.
Long time poster here who learned a lot about LACs from cc. When we took the college tours, I added quite a few LACs to the list. Only 1 resonated with my kids. They just did not want to attend a college that was smaller than their HS. LACs also have a much more limited course offerings. And of course, on the Left Coast, LACs are just not that well known/popular. Sure, a lot of folks in SoCal know of Pomona and Mudd, but they are just considered a small college that are extremely hard to get into. All others require airplane travel (which requires wealth, despite decent financial aid), and since most kids attend college a few hours’ drive from home…
btw: not a fan of the consortiums either: when we visited Amherst, the student Guide spoke eloquently about the advantages of the 5C and that her roommate was taking an accounting class at UMass. My son leaned over and whispered to me, “why would someone pay for Amherst to take classes a UMass? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of a LAC?” Hmmmm.
I realize that their are numerous LAC-Uni threads on cc, and you have participated in them OP. Both of my kids had a choice and chose a mid-sized Uni. I don’t believe any of our top dozen graduates attended a LAC.
My kids who went to a small private independent K-12 school both preferred LACs. They liked the idea of “being known” and developing close ties with faculty (both things that definitely happened for them in college). I think their GC would have recommended either type of school, following the lead of kids and parents on preferences.
We visited large universities, too, and I attended a prominent state flagship. I can’t think of a soul from my own 300+ HS class from a working class area that went to a LAC. I had cousins from
PA whose parents were profs at Gettysburg, though, and their kids went to Swarthmore & Oberlin. But I also admit that I nudged my kids toward LACs. My own college experience was pretty anonymous; I think I’d be a different (and maybe better) person if I’d gone the LAC route myself.
The idea is to broaden the academic offerings available to you while still, fundamentally, getting the education Amherst has to offer. The purpose of liberal arts colleges is to ensure that students get a liberal arts education, but this does not preclude taking a few courses in other areas.
Long ago, I went to Cornell. I was in the College of Arts and Sciences, which is the liberal arts college within the university, and my major was biology. I was required to take a certain number of credits within the College of Arts and Sciences, which I did. But I had the opportunity to take some electives in other parts of the university. I had developed an interest in food science and nutrition, and I was considering applying to master’s degree programs in one of those areas. So I took three food science courses and one nutrition course (and I went on to get a master’s degree in food science, which played a major role in helping me get my first three post-college jobs before I shifted into a different career).
Fast-forward 35 years, and my daughter enrolled in the same university, also in the College of Arts and Sciences, as an economics major. She also took advantage of the opportunity to take elective courses in other parts of the university – in her case, five business courses, including two in accounting. These courses helped her to confirm that business was the career she wanted, and what she learned in those courses proved valuable in her first job (with a consulting firm).
Is what my daughter and I did at Cornell really different from what an Amherst student might do within the consortium? And is it something to be regretted?
We must have corrupted our kids. We knew the value of liberal arts colleges. My older one applied to 6 colleges, 3 of which were LAC’s. He ended up attending the most liberal-artsy in curriculum of the larger colleges he applied to (UChicago). My daughter applied to highly specialized “arts” colleges, with one exception (CMU). She chose RISD and Providence.
I agree that the more urban liberal arts colleges were more attractive to my son, and even his ultimate choice of UofC was based as much on the location as it was on the culture of the college. My daughter also wanted to go to college in what she called a “real city” in the East, and she had to convince herself that Providence qualified.
well, that statement (right or wrong) can’t be said for all consortiums, IMO. Quaker Consortium of Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Swarthmore and Penn - nothing to scoff at. 
Still, @doschicos, within the consortium you refer to, a student might take a non-liberal-arts course at Penn.
I’m not sure whether @bluebayou was objecting primarily to the difference in selectivity and price between Amherst and UMass or to the fact that an Amherst student took a course that was not in a liberal arts subject. I assumed that it was mostly the latter, which I why I posted the stories about the experiences my daughter and I had at Cornell.
I just think this generation is more career prep focused and are not as interested in life of mind educations and it is reinforced by the parents. There are many younger than me parents who went off to unis in the eighties or later when going to college post high school became more common or may not understand the small LAC concept.
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A lot of the stronger LACs are seeing plenty of applications. I don’t think much has changed, though, really. It’s always been the case. LACs, due to size, due to lack of sports recognition, aren’t know by a lot of Average Joes. Those who know strong educational institutions, know and recognize the value of the LACs that get discussion here. They don’t appeal to many applicants for a variety of reasons but are great places for those who recognize, appreciate, and take advantage of their virtues.
The declining interest in LAC’s has been going on for a while. The Chronicle of Higher Education noted this trend, and suggested the main reason for it, several years ago: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/10/11/study-finds-liberal-arts-colleges-are-disappearing
If someone comes from more limited means, there is good reason to be career focused. Outside CC, the overwhelming number of students to local or semi-local schools and are trying to create an opportunity to have a better life. I support the goal of a liberal arts education but understand the motivation of one worried about a good job after college. One also doesn’t have to attend an LAC to get a liberal arts education.
We don’t know enough about OPs area other than it was a regional report and approx. 300 college bound seniors. That implies somewhere between rural and small city but that’s a guess. Where I came from, 98% of kids went to school within 250 miles of home. There was no money for college tours and that was if we had heard of such a thing. Perhaps some in that area have now but there is still no money for it. The average student goes to a directional. The top students go to one of the state’s four year universities. A handful may end up in a private school within 250 miles, some of which could be classified as LACs but not names that would ever be mentioned here.
The folks on CC are in a different sort of bubble than the kids I grew up with but a bubble none the less.
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I live in Virginia and with such strong state schools such as UVA, W & M (which is sort of a LAC), and VATech a lot of top students don’t look a lot further. It makes good financial sense for many people to do so.
One of my kids attended a top LAC for one year and transferred (it is a terrific school, he just wanted something larger), and many people were not familiar with it.
Most “LACs” in this country offer non-liberal-arts majors like business, education, and nursing. I haven’t measured, but I’d venture to guess that business is among the most popular majors at a majority of so-called LACs. They’re just smaller institutions that offer few or no graduate programs. So I don’t see career emphasis as a good explanation for the declining interest in LACs. Meanwhile, Harvard College actually is a liberal arts college from a curricular point of view. Go figure.
And this too is a strike against them.
Students who enter college with large numbers of AP/IB credits may be ready to take graduate-level courses by senior year or even junior year, and some want to do this. But at an LAC, they’re typically not available.
- There are regions with a relatively large number of LACs (Northeast and Midwest) but in most other parts of the country, LACs are few and far between.
- There's a region that seems to value privates (and LACs) more (the Northeast) but most of the country isn't like that.
- Many/most LACs are in rural areas, which isn't so appealing these days to many kids.
- Many kids don't want to go to a college that is not much bigger than their HS.
- Almost by definition, a LAC (outside a consortium) will have limited academic offerings and majors.
- LACs are roughly 1/4th the size of the top privates RU's which are roughly 1/4th the size of top flagships (give or take, counting undergrad population), so you really shouldn't expect a sizeable chunk of any public HS to be going to a LAC (outside of possibly the Northeast).
- LACs are private and thus generally more expensive. Yes, the rich ones give generous fin aid, but pretty much none of the top ones offer merit money. Of those who do offer merit money, getting total costs down below $30K/year is really difficult, and kids who have the stats for those typically can go to some public for even less. Almost nowhere on the financial means/academic prowess grid is a LAC going to be the cheapest option.
^Yes. We found that the private LACs would use the classes as placement only and, although you might get the credits, they were so limited as to be useless. My D could have completed the instate flagship in 3 years with a double major but didn’t want to attend. It can save considerable $$ if that is the goal.
Part of it is that high school counselors knowledge is limited on the subject. We live in Louisina and my doughter’s counselor had never herd of Trinity University. Good school less than 7 Hours away. They seem to push kids to the name brand instate schools. They had no ideal that a normal kid could find a way to afford a school like that.