<p>I’m not so sure what the OP is feeling goes “far beyond the irritation and tension that often happens in familes.” I simply think the OP was being extraordinarily honest in describing the pain she is presently feeling. AT THE TIME that my son about to leave for college, I or my husband, if we were honest, might have described the situation in much the same way. At the time it HURTS. Of course we hurt most the ones we love most. I think often the stronger the connection, the more pain involved. In my case, S has grown up and out so much in two years it’s breathtaking! He’s a man now! I have every confidence the same outcome will occur in the OP’s situation. Just hang in there!</p>
<p>So, should her son change nothing of his behavior that is so hurtful, he can continue on being the way he is with no regard for his mom</p>
<p>Got it</p>
<p>With the separation will come changes, CGM. Freshman year is still very stressful, but sometime during sophomore year the OP should see positive changes in demeanor and attitude. At least that was my experience, and I think it’s not uncommon.</p>
<p>From the original post </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I had to go back and find this thread because when I saw it earlier I didn’t have a chance to look at it. </p>
<p>Now, I understand a little better what my s is doing! My son is a rising senior in high school. I began this summer thinking that this was going to be the last year that he would be a “full-time” member of the family. I wanted this summer to be so full of good times and memories. Instead, we’ve had arguments about his staying up until 3 am and then sleeping until 2 pm (his excuse has been that he “can’t get to sleep” but in reality he has been enjoying that late night time to “do what he wants to do” – IM friends, watch TV, etc, etc. And, then, by sleeping in so late, he avoids family responsibilities, chores, etc. (Avoiding chores seems to be his biggest goal – and we require VERY little in this area – do your own laundry, empty the Dishwasher, clean your own room and your own bathroom. However, in the summer, we do sometimes want some assistance when we tackle some larger projects around the house).</p>
<p>S had a ton of AP summer homework to do so naturally as July rolled around and school year was approaching (starts Monday), my H and I started to get nervous. He told us that he should be able to stay up as late as he wanted as long as he started getting up on time to begin his summer homework. After a few days of his failing to get up in the morning, we had to get serious. We blocked all his favorite channels on all TV’s in the house. (Watching TV from midnight to 3 am was his biggest problem). Blocking his fav channels finally worked. He wasn’t even too mad at us because he knew that we had given him the chance to manage himself and he had failed.</p>
<p>I do think that kids don’t realize the larger impact to themselves and their parents when they are about to “leave the nest.” All they are thinking about is “no more parents around. Yeah!!!” That is their big focus (I know I sure looked forward to that when I went to college.) However, for us parents, it is the “end of an era” with that child. That is why we want those last weeks/months to be “the best.” This reminds me of times when you want to make each moment count with a terminally ill family member or with a dear friend who is moving far away – at least in that case, the other person wants to make the most of each moment, too!!!. But when you are trying to do this with a kid who will soon be away at college, he/she doesn’t feel the same need to make the most of each remaining day with you. And that hurts! </p>
<p>Well, at least with the TV off and summer homework almost complete, we have peace around here!</p>
<p>quote from a college student who just completed his first year:</p>
<p>“True, last summer, I was more irritable and standoff-ish than I usually am. I’m convinced, though, that it’s not because I was subconsciously afraid of college life and my new independence. Rather, it was because I was so looking forward to it, and my bad attitude arose from simple impatience.”</p>
<p>Yes, I can see this point! I think my own son is really looking forward to the independence of college. BUT, he refuses to do the stuff to get himself ready to do so. </p>
<p>The plan this summer was to get him to start taking care of “his business” (banking, laundry, knowing where his stuff is!!!, etc) so that we would agree to let him apply to schools which are quite far away (New York, etc). We told him at the beginning of summer that if he wanted to do the far away college visits then he had to prove to us that he was responsible enough to go that far away. We told him that if he didn’t “rise to the challenge” then he could only go a few hundred miles away. He did NOTHING to reach that goal. He never knows where his wallet is, his cell phone, his shoes, the book he’s been reading, whatever! I have long refused to help find these things for him. In this regard, he is not a quick learner! Oh well. It feels good just to get this off my chest :)</p>
<p>jl … congrats on handling the TV problem! It’s easier to do nothing sometimes and I’m glad you kept parenting. Just wondering if you son works. Mine does and he definitely knows where every cent is. I wouldn’t worry about him goer farther away. He might find he needs to keep up with things. Just because he’s close doesn’t mean you’ll be there to help him. Anyway, you sound like a great parent going through a difficult time. I know I am! My son leaves in two weeks … sob</p>
<p>I am late to this thread and don’t know that I have a lot to add. There was one previous comment that I believe is very important. I don’t remember the exact words but the statement was that teenagers can be extremely selfish. We had some extreme issues with D1. From the age of 14 to about 19 she was very difficult and very selfish. We eventually got past that time. D2 was much easier but very stubborn and selfish in her own way. She was actually fairly pleasant the Summer before freshman year. Now after the freshman year, she is back home and relations have been strained. The most notable characteristic is again extreme selfishness. She won’t cooperate on anything including even the most minimal tasks and chores needed to live. I have been doing my father thing and trying to ignore the situation. My W and D have been locked in combat. The situation came to a head a few weeks ago after my D did something really stupid that even she regretted and was worried about. We had a one family discussion in the presence of a counsellor. There really hasn’t been reason for any more confrontation. My D is cooperating and relatively pleasant. She does need quite a bit of space to herself but I suspect she reached some new level of maturity. </p>
<p>I do believe the selfness of teenagers is part of growing up and trying to face the world and handle stresses. Some of my D’s stresses are clearly visible. She was proud and fond of a recent boyfriend and suddenly that relationship moved into uncertain waters. She has no friends left from her high school years. The former close friends have moved in the direction of non-stop alcohol and parties. </p>
<p>I don’t know when we parents need to step back, when we need to act and when we need to call for professional help. There is nothing certain or easy about raising kids. Fortunately most of them do turn into pretty good adults. We like to believe we can help, we want to help, but I think most of it is up to them.</p>
<p>Wow, what a lot of good advice, good sense, and good humor on this thread! Hope it is helpful, Sage. You certainly are not alone.
As a teenager, I don’t recall anything near the current super-competitive atmosphere re: college. There wasn’t this need to excel academically, get amazing test scores, volunteer, AND prove our “passion” (ugh) for ECs or who-knows-what when we were only 16 or 17. I think we had more time to be involved with our families, babysit, mow the lawn, cook, talk, etc.<br>
Even so, I was NOwhere near as kind or communicative a daughter as I should have been, and I think it’s even harder for kids and parents now. Family life can suffer, and when it comes time for them to leave, maybe it hits even harder. Where did our time with them go? I see it coming already. At 45, I cannot BELIEVE how fast time flies.
I can only speak from my own experience, Sage, but hopefully he will see things a little differently when he comes home. I had a lousy relationship with my father, and going away to school was good for both of us. By the time I was 18, separation and distance were what we needed, and we learned to appreciate each other. It sounds like there is much opportunity for things to improve. Good luck!!</p>
<p>I think that self-centered may be more accurate than selfish. Young adults have not developed the empathy skills to understand how their actions may be affecting those around them. They are excited (and worried) about moving onto another stage of their lives, but they don’t take the time to realize that their parents must adjust to this new stage also. They also may not have matured enough to communicate their frustrations to their parents… although they can complain to their friends…(misery loves company!)</p>
<p>As parents of young adults, I don’t think many of us would mistreat (or yell at) our own elderly parents when they frustrate us, but we have matured over time and have learned that we don’t need to react to every little thing that they do that annoys us. We have learned that our own parents will give us advice (whether it is desired or not), but we can take it or leave it…and we are confident enough to do so. Unfortunately, when we were heading off to college, we also acted out towards those parents that we now treat with respect…the circle repeats itself.</p>
<p>Some suggestions…</p>
<p>Choose your battles carefully…Choose those things that you will not tolerate and let the other things slide. In our home, things like swearing and calling someone “stupid” were always unacceptable–that did not change when they “grew up”.</p>
<p>Set a timeline for things that are important to you…and give them a voice in when it is done…“We need to ______ (fill in the blank) …would you like to do this on Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning???” Instead of saying that we need to a bunch of stuff to get ready for college, it is more helpful to make a list of the most important things your child needs to accomplish. Allow them to make a list of things that they need you to do before they leave. Checking things off the list will show that they are indeed making progress towards leaving (and cooperating with you!).</p>
<p>Learn to accept suggestions (and learn how to ask for advice) from your young adults. We are so used to handing out the advice, that we don’t take the time to realize that they have lots to offer us…(and they do have great ideas!!)</p>
<p>When your kids leave for college, get busy!! Don’t mope around waiting for them to return…because they aren’t anxious to come back to the same old household!! Take classes, join an exercise group, learn a new skill. The kids will shake their heads at how mom and dad went crazy while they were gone, but they will respect you for trying something new…</p>
<p>What sport is he being recruited in? I ask because the behavior could be steroid induced. Is he being recruited for football or baseball?</p>
<p>dont let empty-nest syndrome get to you. if it makes you feel any better, i’m very mean and disrespectful with my parents when they try to tell me what to do when it comes to college and being prepared…and i still love them to death.</p>
<p>its just part of the cycle of growing up. dont take this stage in his life so personally. its not that he has stopped loving you or will disappear from your life. Being away will probably make him appreciate you more than ever. Try to find other things to do with your days when he is gone. try to take some classes/lessons like yoga, piano, swimming, knitting, pottery whatever the heck interests you! </p>
<p>like i said, this is the beginning of empty-nest syndrome. you’ll just have to deal with it and know that your situation is very common…</p>
<p>hes trying to be independent and if you are one of those moms who nag, i think nagging is part of the problem. anyways dont be so upset…he wont take you for granted for much longer bc soon he’ll be wishing for home made meals and your support. he’ll get homesick and grow out of this stage of disrespecting you</p>
<p>No kidding. Citygirlsmom has a recipe for disaster going on.</p>
<p>This whole family’s got problems.</p>
<p>When my brother went off my parents met him half way. You know loosened up. He could stay out later if he called. </p>
<p>You could feel it in the air. Sort of a mix of anticipation, excitement, and sadness all at the same time. There was definitely a vibe. I kind of dreaded the dinner thing without him. I think that’s why we ate out so much that summer. I think everyone dreaded it.</p>
<p>But we handled it. My parents cut him a LOT of slack and I sort of resented it but sort of understood it. I even said, lighte up. He said I know and just looked at the floor. I told my dad about it and he explained about the stress thing.</p>
<p>It’s just my family’s way of handling things. Nothing new really.</p>
<p>I think what ever your family’s way of handling stress has been while you were growing up it will be that same the summer before you leave for college.</p>
<p>Even this summer I’ve been thinking this is my last ‘normal’ summer. I don’t know it will be different after college gets going. Just more options.</p>
<p>I think this WHOLE family’s got issues.</p>
<p>Also, I think there’s a really good chance this kid’s not going to make it in college and that’s part of the issue. My brother and cousin got into really, really good schools and they say there are kids that hit the ground running. </p>
<p>They are self disciplined, they can do the work, they make friends and those that just hole up in their room and are slackers.</p>
<p>You’ve got to wonder if the parents are worried that this kid is a slacker. They’ll know pretty quickly, like before the family fortune is gone.</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom, thank god my parents don’t think like you. I’ve got friends whose parents act like that. The kids are sort of screwed up and the parents, well they’re definitely screwed up. I mean they are so one sided their holding their kids way back.</p>
<p>Recipe for disaster., You act like the OPs son is a nice upstanding son who is kind, and gentle and respectful and does no wrong</p>
<p>WHEN SHOULD AN ADULT have to take responsibility for their behavior, actions, moods, meanness, etc, or do you think never</p>
<p>NEVER, or so long as they are “stressed” they can be jerks and cruel, and irresonsible, but aw, they are going off to college so should be allowed to act like spoiled brats</p>
<p>A recipe for disastor is allowing a grown man, of legal age, to be continue to act like a child, that does know one any good</p>
<p>If my kid was treating me like dirt on a consistant basis, day in and day out, with no regard to me or my feelings, I should just keep letting them because they are going through stuff</p>
<p>It is holding an adult back by letting them get away with being cruel…either they are adult enough to act like adult, and that is not just partying, even though many posters seem to think it is adult to stay out all night, drink, and not have to check in</p>
<p>Being a mature adult is</p>
<p>Taking responsibility for actions</p>
<p>Being held ACCOUNTABLE for actions, and that includes how you treat other people</p>
<p>Cleaning up after yourself, at a minimum</p>
<p>Informing people of where you are going and about when you should be back, (that is just common courtesty)</p>
<p>Not calling names, not ignoring people, not using people</p>
<p>Being an adult involved apologizing when you do wrong</p>
<p>Being an adult means seeing that others have feelings, and that your feelings, wants and needs are not the center of the universe</p>
<p>Being an adult means seeing that your parents, while not perfect, did a lot for you and they themselves are having some stuff going on and acknowledging that</p>
<p>Being an adult means not doing everything you want all the time, it means spending time with family, sitting and talking with them, sharing, it does not mean playing with your friends 24-7</p>
<p>Being an adult means that you should be getting your %)*# together in a timely fashion </p>
<p>Being an adult means realizing that your stress, etc, is not the only stress on the planet, and you need to see how your moods, words, behavior effects the people around you</p>
<p>Being an adult is alot more than saying, gee, no more curfew</p>
<p>And believe it or not, many young adult have family issues that are not created by the parents alone, that those kids have often not stepped up and you are just hearing one side</p>
<p>I know many wonderful caring parents at their wits ends </p>
<p>Gee, read my posts, will yah> My expectations are that strict, I just want people in my life to be kind and sweet, and responsible most of the time, is thst too much to ask</p>
<p>I understand that everyone goes through moods and phases and blows up, but if it MORE THAN HALF THE TIME, there is a serious problem going on and to ignore it does no one any good at all</p>
<p>You can’t hold back a person who is mature, caring, loving, kind, and courteous</p>
<p>When I hear kids going, my mom grounded me AGAIN, she doesn’t let me do anything…then you hear the kid snuck out of the house a 1am and didn’t get home till 5am, and broke a window snekaing back into the house</p>
<p>Or they got Ds in school</p>
<p>Or they lied about where they were</p>
<p>Or they called mo the worst names in the book, and it was the 5th time</p>
<p>Or they threw up at a friends house after drinking all afternoon</p>
<p>A person needs to act like an adult, to be treated like one, and if parents are strict, well, grow up. </p>
<p>My Ds have a lot of freedom, but they have to check in, keep me posted, and be responsible. </p>
<p>Both my Ds have shown I can trust them. Most of the time they are gems…sometimes, as with anybody, they yell, I yell, but it is such a small part of our great relationship that it passes</p>
<p>It is when, for those that think I am this awful person, it is when a person repeastedly is abusive, nasty, cruel, disrepsectful as the OP alluded to, that a parent or any person has to say enough is enough</p>
<p>THink of it this way</p>
<p>If you had a daughter and they were dating a guy who acted like a jerk most of the time, what would you tell her? that stick it out, he is stressed? Or would you hope she would see that light.</p>
<p>WHy are parents supposed to take it from abusive people? For prolonged periods of time? And when should they say, no more</p>
<p>What you do not get Citygirlsmom, is that this senior to be freshman might have real problems. Cutting him off at this point sucks. Maybe the day for being super tough with him will come but it’s not now. Well, not if the family is really committed to having him succeed. </p>
<p>Face it, the entire family’s got problems. This is not just a kid thing. I wonder why you don’t see that. Maybe this is the way your family operates but I don’t think it feels good. It doesn’t feel good to me. It feels wrong and mean and not understanding.</p>
<p>I am so glad my parents don’t think they deserve a medal for attending any of my games and recitals. You know symmetry is a complexity-reducing concept. Your concept here seems very symetrical but very wrong. I think this kid deserves a chance.</p>
<p>And relationships with parents are incredibly different from relationships with girlfriends. Where’s the logic there? I mean are you really a MOM? I’m going to go give my Mom the biggest hug. Maybe I never knew how lucky I was.</p>
<p>Oh please. You can have a perfectly wonderful kid and a perfectly wonderful parent, and some days they argue, because no one can push your buttons as well as someone who knows you well and loves you a lot. </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean the relationship is abusive or inappropriate or whatever. It just means a button got pushed. The summer before your kid leaves for college is stressful, and it should be. All kinds of changes are happening in the family relationships, and decisions are made–openly or not–about how things go forward from there. Do you stop doing laundry because s/he’s an “adult” or do you do it because “hey, why not?” Do you come home for dinner or eat with your friends? Suppose Mom is the quiet type and didn’t say “please come home for dinner this week because I haven’t seen you?” Can she still feel hurt if her son/daughter didn’t figure that out? </p>
<p>I think ALL relationships benefit when people are comfortable stating their needs and wants. In my family we have the concept of “perfect mom/kid/dad/husband/wife” points. We don’t actually add them up, but you can say “would you please take my car and fill it with gas, I’ll give you 100 perfect kid points”–which acknowledges that it’s above-and-beyond–and also means the kid can say “and I’ll give you 125 perfect mom points if you do my laundry today, I’m really busy.” (This morning I gave my husband a million perfect husband points when he brought me a cup of tea in bed and took the dog out.)</p>
<p>NPNG: I’m impressed with your insights and observations, especially: “I think whatever your family’s way of handling stress has been while you were growing up will be the same the summer before you leave for college,” which is very astute.</p>
<p>Hey guys, the hug I gave my MOM … nothing like the hug I give my girlfriend. </p>
<p>A million points? How does that work. sounds like inflation to me. Just a joke. I guess everyone has a system. In our family we cut each other slack and we don’t yell. Ever. My parents don’t yell and we don’t yell. It’s just not acceptable. so maybe I don’t understand where people yell, and people give points, and I guess there’s a lot I don’t understand.</p>
<p>I just think our system works for us. So, got to go now. I’ve surfed these boards all morning. Thanks for the advice. </p>
<p>It’s sort of like going over to someone else’s house. There’s a vibe there. You can sense it before you get there really. Just knowing the kid. And yhou know if it’s a place you want to come back to.</p>
<p>If it’s a place where they read books, or they drink, or they do anything to extreme. You just pick up on it. Same here. Cool and scary, too.</p>
<p>Oh, and here’s what my Mom said at lunch.</p>
<p>You and your brother both went through these transitions. We just all have to take it in stride. When you were in preschool you finally got it down, being a little kid. You knew where to go, what to do and you knew who your friends were and everything was cool. Then boom. You were in elementary school. You had to get your bearings again. You got to be about ten or eleven and once again you had being a kid down. You knoew what to do and who your friends were, how to spend your time what to do and bam. The preadolescent phase hit. Everything changed again on you and it stayed weird in junior high. Then finally high school. The big kids welcomed you, introduced you accepted you and you got your bearings and once again you were on top of the world. Now college, and your wondering will it be as crazy as junior high. Doubtful.</p>
<p>It’s just transition time. Your father and I have always believed in dignity and integrity. Keep yours and it will keep you safe. It will keep you from being in places where you do not want to be and safe from people that you do not want to be with. Now be careful in those chat rooms because you have no idea who’s on the other side of the computer!</p>
<p>Yep, that’s my Mom. Another chance for a little life lesson. She never misses them but we love her. This place is just a little weird for me.</p>
<p>Biker wrote: “What sport is he being recruited in? I ask because the behavior could be steroid induced. Is he being recruited for football or baseball?”</p>
<p>Increased anger in people using testosterone has only been found in the case of people with preexisting psychological problems; a study was conducted where it was concluded that supraphysiological doses of testosterone do not increase angry behavior in normal men (R Tricker, et al).</p>
<p>Because of this fact, even if he was on steroids, they would only be exacerbating an existing problem and would not the problem in itself.</p>
<p>The conclusion that the OP’s son might be on steroids because he plays sports and because he is angry has come up twice on this thread. Not only is this a very naive conclusion, it’s insulting towards athletes and the OP’s son. Despite the fact that you know almost nothing about him, other than the fact that he is angry, you are attributing serious psychological problems and drug abuse to him, not to mention discrediting his athletic achievements. Sure anything might be possible, but if you have no real basis from which to draw a conclusion, why say something insulting?</p>
<p>Yes he probably does have real problems and they need to be looked at but many posters here were saying, oh gee, its just a transition…if he is having real problems and saying, cut it out, you are being rude, if that doesn’t work, then of course a parent needs to look deeper</p>
<p>but some people are just jerks, and some have serious health issues, and some, as suggested might be medicating themselves</p>
<p>but to see what the problem is you go through the usual, is something wrong, why are you being so short tempered, etc…most people will say, gosh, sorry, if I was being a jerk, and if they don’t stop, and realize and get worse, then yes, you should get further adivce</p>
<p>My point is WHEN does a parent say, my adult child has gone to far, crossed to many lines and something needs to be done, because they are not listening and don’t seem to really care about anything </p>
<p>THAT of course is a warning sign, but if parents are told, well, just let it slide, its NORMAL cause they are stressed, then the parent may let dangerous behavior and IGNORE warning signs of a much deeper issue, but unless you FIRST try and work as a family to call the person on their bad behavior, and see if any change happens, how will you know if it is a deeper issue</p>
<p>My friends D was really cranky, moody, sleep deprived, etc. they talked to her, watched for symptoms, tried a couple of different approaches, and when, after a nothing changed, they took her to a therapist (we are not talking a very long period of time here at all) and there was a serious issue, but if just let it slide, as some people sauid, well she is starting HS and is STRESSED, don’t worry and ignore her rude snooty behavior, that would have helped no one</p>
<p>If it is a more serious issue, you will soon discover it if you ask the person to stop the behaviour and they don’t or can’t or don’t care…if you don’t do that, you will never know, will you, if you just ignore it, it can get worse, that is why, you must do the usual, :“stop being rude, please look me in the eye when we talk, you need to tell me where you are going,” and if the awful behavior continues, you either have a just bad person, or a person with a serious problem, you can’t rule things out until you ask for better behavior</p>
<p>From the OPs post it was more than just pushing a few buttons, if my friend had left it at buttons being pushed, and taken peoples’ advice to blow it off, and didn’t try and ask for the D to act respecfully, and the girl just couldn’t would the parents have seen it was a deep issue and more than just stress…if we pass off bad behavior all the time to stress, we either miss a deeper issue or allow rudeness etc, to continue…doing nothing for people that have gone near the edge is dangerous and does no one any good</p>