<p>S is graduating from college! YAY! Now he wants to go to law school. The well is dry and apparently an adult law school student can borrow a ton of money to mortgage an education in a field that is struggling. Son has been accepted to a variety of schools, none highly ranked, most very costly with a smattering of merit aid. I’m strongly encouraging him to come home for a year and work, retake the LSAT, reapply so that there will be more options and possibly more merit aid. Yet, S is 22, going on 23 and thinks it’s now or never. S listens to us but still may choose the huge debt route…I’ve shared every warning in print and online. Any other parents out there in the same boat? How are you dealing with this? I’ve considered taking up drinking:))))! </p>
<p>I would not recommend attending anything but a t-14 these days unless it’s a regional school with excellent employment stats in a city where he’d like to settle. There are approximately 45,000 new law grads each year and half of those will not find employment in the legal world. And to go into debt to attend? Not a good idea.</p>
<p>I’m a lawyer and completely agree with alwaysamom. Top 20 and do well. Even Vandy grads lower down in the class are not finding jobs. Flagship state school will work if you do REALLY well. It’s just a terrible market. </p>
<p>Thanks for the thoughts…</p>
<p>If you aren’t in the group that the really good firms want, its hard to scratch out a living. I think that means top 5%, in addition to having all the non-academic personal attributes. We’re aware of a bright guy at a top 10 who’s heading to work for a government agency, which is ok, but not necessarily what he might have most desired.</p>
<p>You have to believe in yourself, but you have to have your eyes open too. </p>
<p>Send him to the top-law-schools .com site. It is like CC for law students. Have him check out the legal employment forum and specifically the vale of tears thread. If that doesn’t make him think twice about taking out huge loans, nothing will.</p>
<p>it is a really bad idea to pay full price for any LS outside of the top few.</p>
<p>It is a downright foolish idea to attend a LS ranked below the top 20, unless it is for free. (The odds of getting a legal job even at #20 are not great. For example, only ~25% of George Washington’s grads obtain a good enough job to pay off the crippling debt incurred to attend that school.) </p>
<p>Retake is the only answer. (or don’t go – a barista has better job potential)</p>
<p>We know a couple of attorneys who went to local law school. She aw some of the very top grads and has gotten amazing jobs. Her H graduated with big debt and jobs he has not liked nearly as much; he will set up his own practice now. It is indeed a scary market and not one I’d advise for anyone to go into significant debt to pursue. </p>
<p>Law school grad here: Agree with the rest. </p>
<p>Here’s another thought: if he can take some time off, he can save up money to help offset some of the costs. Can he live at home with you and get a job? If you are willing to let him live at home for free, then he can save his earnings and at least reduce the amount of money he has to borrow in year #1. </p>
<p>He will also be MUCH better off at the other end if he has some full time work experience in his background. He’ll be a more attractive summer hire for a law firm with demonstrated work history on his resume – and those summer clerkships will make him a more attractive hire for when he is ready to graduate.</p>
<p>If he can boost his LSAT scores he may find more attractive aid packages available from the top law schools as well. </p>
<p>My son took the LSAT a number of years ago and got a score that we felt was well under the best that he could do – but he got a lot of junk mail from law schools we never heard of offering full tuition scholarships. So basically, your son could do better – either get into a more highly ranked school, or if he’s dead set on attending a lower ranked school, at least get better aid.</p>
<p>What does he want to do with his law degree? Does he know what type of law he wants to practice? What context he would like to work in?</p>
<p>Thank you. I will share the thoughts and be accused of being “Debbie Downer!” Yet, I guess I need to know that he hears it. I know that the year off is the best way to go…Thanks again to all!</p>
<p>I think of a “Debbie Downer” as someone who only sees the negative of any situation. In this situation, you are being a realist. </p>
<p>You can talk about the positive of going to law school, but I think if he is smart enough to handle law school he should be smart enough to do law school right. That means maximize the school and minimize the debt. </p>
<p>S1 graduated from law school 2 years ago with a bunch of debt even with a grant. He entered the Federal Management Fellowship program, will do 10 years in the Federal gov with income based repayment. At the end the debt is forgiven. He will then evaluate if he wants to leave. Meanwhile he is getting responsibility and decent hours instead of being ground up as a first year associate. Niece’s husband is doing the same as an attorney in the Air Force. He is getting way more trial experience than as an associate. Both had good grades, graduated from stellar regional schools, top 30 overall and pursued alteratives aggressively. While in school they took practical courses and pursued practical experiences. Neither tried for the law review, etc but did the practicums… Not to make too rosey an outlook and at the rsik of being plamed, but it is not all doom and gloom if you have an open mind to something besides Big Law and plan for it,</p>
<p>There are excellent reasons to get work experience for a few years before law school. Some schools openly prefer students who don’t enter directly from college - Northwestern is one. It gives the prospective student a chance to save money, see where the market for law grads is going, and practice and retake the LSATs (nothing will make a greater difference to your son in admissions and eventual level of debt). But almost as important: law school is not an undergrad type of experience. It’s not forgiving of too much partying or procrastination. My d, who just graduated on Sunday, saw a substantial difference in success amongst her friends who were kindergarten-JD and those who worked for a few years between college and law school. </p>
<p>Not saying there aren’t many kids who perform well directly out of undergrad. But that first semester is all-important, and those who know how to hit the ground running are at an advantage.</p>
<p>Should have mentioned S1 had a couple of years work experience and the Federal Agency that hired him was related to that experience. But niece’s H went right from college.<br>
He should explore and be aware of that particular school’s record. There are schools that are just there taking $ and their grads have much worse experience afterwards. If he finds out what a particular school’s successful grads are doing he can plan accordingly. </p>
<p>D1 graduated from law school in 2012. She luckily got the job she wanted, so all’s good. She did go straight from college to law school. Though it worked out fine, it did surprise me to find that many students had been in the work force for a year or more before starting law school. In D1’s last year my husband attended a parents’ weekend and ended up sitting at a table with our daughter (an L3 - soon to graduate), an L2, and an L1. Daughter was the youngest of the three despite being an L3. The other two students had worked for a while before starting law school. One was a nurse, if I remember correctly.</p>
<p>S was a Vandy Law grad in 2011. The employed at graduation rate was the worst they’ve had in the last 10-20 years. The magic date for measuring graduate employment for the ABA is either 9 or 10 months after graduation and that class did still struggle overall. S was well placed in the class, but he chose to move to an area where his degree was not as highly valued as if he stayed in Nashville, Atlanta, etc. He did get a good job in March after spending his first months after passing the bar working in the public interest sector (funded by VULS). Anyway, I have some knowledge of more recent employment stats and things are looking much better for Vandy law grads.
I do agree with the posters who suggest the work for a few years strategy. </p>
<p>I have overheard H advising son’s friends that should consider working a year or two before law school in an area that interests them and develop a bit of “expertise”. This would allow them to differentiate themselves from the competition by playing up their skill set and network connections to bring in new clients. Examples - EPA, accounting firm, health insurance, investments, etc.</p>
<p>Son worked for a couple of years first then went to law school on a full tuition scholarship. Spent those years studying for the LSAT to make sure he got the score he needed. Couldn’t go to a top school since he’s married and would have had to move to do it and his wife had a good job here.</p>
<p>After graduating Law school wanted to open a practice with two friends. One could not do it because his law school debts prevented him from taking both the risk and the low pay until the practice became established. Son and other friend are now making very good money and love having their own firm but did suffer through a couple of years of struggling. Are now making more money than friend with the debt.</p>
<p>Know another young man who worked awhile before going to a UC for law school. He entered with lots of merit and FAid. His dad was proud and pleased. I see only downsides to entering with a stack of loans. Many of my peers in the early 80s even did work a bit before law school, though these days, it’s even more common. </p>
<p>momrules -</p>
<p>If your son hasn’t taken any time off (other than summer vacations) since starting pre-school/kindergarten, the whole idea of not being in school for something, somewhere, come fall probably is something that he just can’t wrap his mind around. Unlike a kid who studied Hotel Management (for example) in college and who has been dreaming since day one about getting out and getting to work, your son’s eyes have been on law school. This means that waiting a year (or more) before law school will require a major change in his mentality. But I think it will help you to look at it that way.</p>
<p>And yes, I totally agree that working for a year or two before law school would be the best plan. He would be able to think a bit more realistically about his goals for that law degree, and he would have time to consider the possibility that law school isn’t for him after all.</p>
<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>