<p>You are not getting it razorsharp. I told my husband exactly where I stand. That I am getting older and don’t plan to be unhappy for the rest of my life. Rather than just walk,out, I told him. He gets it. He does understand that there has heretofore been a lack of fairness in our marriage that most women would have bailed on long ago. He also understands that much of it was due to the accommodations we had to make for the fact that he is illiterate. He is a good man. At this point, he wants me to retire at 54 and head somewhere warm. I won’t do that, but he absolutely understands how much I have sacrificed for him and he is grateful for our wonderful kids and financial security. Looking at his siblings, he gets how much of,our success was due to his work ethic and my strength of will and how easy it would have been for him to take the path to jail followed by so many in his family.</p>
<p>Equating the entirety of my adult life with not getting sex is insulting. There actually is more to life than sex.</p>
<p>If a woman had been at home for years because it was best for her family, I would say that her spouse also had an obligation to support her in moving her career or education to the forefront. And if a husband worked a high powered job for years and then when the time was right, his wife should support his need for change.</p>
<p>The difference in my marriage is that we haven’t had the give and take over the years. It has been all give on my part and now I want to receive. My husband knows that our life hasn’t treated us equally.he loves me and wants me to have my turn at happiness. But when telling him that changes would be needed, I make it clear that if we weren’t changing together, I would have to leave. I have read that many men are blindsided when the kids are grown and the wives leave. That should never be the case.</p>
<p>No, I get it completely. I just don’t agree with it. I am trying to address the matter without commenting on your relationship which is very difficult since I don’t know any more about your relationship or relationships than you now about mine. Your comment sounds like what a well educated supervisor would say to an illiterate subordinate, not what a husband or wife should say to the other. If a supervisor asks a subordinate what he or she thinks about the supervisor’s comment, the subordinate will likely say “I understand; it’s ok with me” when in fact the subordinate thinks otherwise. </p>
<p>In a health marriage, I would argue that the wife and the husband should wake up every day trying to add value to the other spouses’s life rather than expecting the other spouse to do the value adding.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My comment wasn’t directed at your life. It was an example to illustrate a point.</p>
<p>A healthy marriage is one which works for both people in the marriage.</p>
<p>There are so many types of marriages, I can’t even imagine how we could “decide” what is healthy and what is not, in the absence of abuse. (obviously NOT healthy.)</p>
<p>I’ve known SAHMs with very lopsided relationships, but very, very happy on both parties. I’ve known couples who fight it out, and as long as they fight fair, they seem really happy. They like to spar. It’s part of the way they see things.</p>
<p>The most important thing is really, imho, direct communication. Sounds to me like ZM has been direct. Instead of expecting H to read her mind, the main complaint of men about women, she has put it on the table. </p>
<p>I just asked H what he thought of that and he said, lucky guy. He knows what she wants. </p>
<p>Again, you really aren’t getting it. For almost 25 years I have had to live in a way that I hate, and to give up all the dreams I had for the good of the family. There was simply no choice. My husband could bring me flowers, fan me with peacock feathers, but the fundamental imbalance in our life couldn’t be addressed until now. My husband is not my subordinate, but unlike you, he understands how much of an extra burden his problem has placed on me and it saddens him that our options have been so limited. Sometimes in life, even for a long time, things don’t balance out and sometimes there really aren’t two sides to every story.</p>
<p>I happen to think that both partners should give and expect value in their relationship. If you aren’t getting something you value, why on earth would anyone stay? Life is very short.</p>
<p>"The most important thing is really, imho, direct communication. Sounds to me like ZM has been direct. Instead of expecting H to read her mind, the main complaint of men about women, she has put it on the table. "</p>
<p>That is the backstory. In our earlier years, we used to fight over nonsense because I did expect him to read my mind and see things the way I did. Which was silly, but some years ago it became clear that our family couldn’t survive if my anger wasn’t dealt with and the first step was to say that I was angry. My husband learned to acknowledge that it sucked when I missed things for the kids and he never did. Nothing so eases an angry soul than the simple words “I’m sorry, I understand and this is not what I want, either.” I learned to speak clearly, he learned not to try to fix. We both learned that dreaming of the future together is priceless in a marriage.</p>
<p>So when I say to my husband exactly what I think or need, he considers it a gift even if it is not what he wants to hear.</p>
<p>Very good op-ed piece in today’s Washington Post, “Can Single Mothers “Lean In”, too?” written by Katharine Weymouth.</p>
<p>"“Most of what follows (in the book), however, is squarely addressed to those who have not just the ambition to lead but the financial resources and support systems to allow them to do just that.”</p>
<p>“But what about the women whose partners don’t have control of their schedules? Or who aren’t in a position to say,“Accept the position, it’s your turn”? And what about the 30 percent of families she cites who are led by a single parent? How can you lean in when you don’t have someone to lean on?”</p>
<p>“We’re organized in nuclear untis, and a single mom can ask her friends only so many times for help picking up the kids.”</p>
<p>This is just one relationship. But (hypothetically) what if hubby said, after years of backing you up, it’s my turn; I want to go back to school? Or the sahm?</p>
<p>It may be the turn of phrase that bothered you. My husband has had a flexible, much shorter workweek than I have for 25 years. He has gotten to do all the things I wanted to, while I worked a much longer week with a commute that caused me permanent kidney problems. The year after our last kid graduates, my husband will retire with financial security at 54. While I continue the same job and commute until I am 65. He thought that when he retired, we would buy a home somewhere warmer and he would go back and forth. Which almost sounds reasonable until the fact that he would be relaxing on the golf course while I commute in the winter and take care of our family home by myself as I get older. I explained that that gave me all the negatives of marriage and none of the positives, and that I couldn’t live with that option, so if that was his choice we would sell this house, I,would get a place with an easier commute and he could pick his sunshine. That was more clear to him and we started researching what our empty nest could look like, with my needs taking some preference over his. Most marriages have these negotiations.</p>
<p>This is all very interesting to me. My husband and I have one of those marriages where we do this elaborate dance of making it work. </p>
<p>Regrets, there are many. Like Zoosermom, the friend thing is the biggest. Social life suffers. It is very hard for me to make friends, so seeing other parents at school events chat and discuss the things they all did together hurt. I couldn’t take off to go to the park, run the kids to practice for 5 different sports and activities, so I didn’t. I imagined my friend circle would grow when the girls were in school, instead it contracted. SAHPs can be a very insular group. Had cancer and I had only family and a few people at work to care. Rough.</p>
<p>My fear was that I would be left alone and penniless. My dad died when I was just 19, leaving a wife and 5 children and $10k in life insurance. I am in the position I am in because I’ve worked for 28 years. Adults who have stayed out of the workforce while their kids grow up expect to jump back in at my level wonder why they can’t. You have to be willing to take it one way or another. There are pluses and minuses to everything, you just have to accept what your choice has thrown your way.</p>
<p>My husband told me 8 years ago that it was his turn career-wise. A person can seethe inside or be up-front and speak out. I’d much rather have the latter. The former is no way to run a marriage.</p>
<p>Most of our marriage, H was primary breadwinner and I was primary SAHM, working part-time jobs I enjoyed along the way. It has worked well for us and neither H nor I have regrets. We are glad I had a lot of flexibility in my schedule which allowed me to take my kids everywhere they needed to be and coordinate the medical care of all of us. We are glad H’s job provided adequate pension and benefits that neither of us has to work any more unless we want to and we both love what we do. </p>
<p>Neither of us really wanted me to return to work after the kids were born 25 years ago and am glad things have worked out well for us.</p>
<p>We do what is necessary for our families. That is sacrifice and hard work. Not everyone gets the chance to make all the ball games or parent meetings. Thats what marriages are suppose to be, a partnership. Sometimes i get to do more, other times my husband did. I made more money than my husband, but I had more flexibility and greatervopportunities to make even more. I don’t quite understand the delineation in value or how things need to be evened up. In the end, my child benefitted from our parental involvement, regardless of who was doing what. I never resented my husband for his contribution or lack of participation nor did he of mine. What about the husbands who have to work all day and not get a chance to be as active in their kid’s life, are they not adding value to their relationships.</p>
When the balance is very close to 100 to 0 over the entirety of a marriage, the partner on the lower end of the scale can and will be angry and resentful if that balance is not addressed.</p>
<p>
It depends on whether it is what they want. If the partner loves his job and is happy with the choice, it’s great. But if the partner hates the balance, then it simply does not work. </p>
<p>
It’s not all about the kids. This is the only life each of us ever gets and if our marriage doesn’t bring happiness (because people are bothered by the word “value”) then changes have to be made. Now we can all sacrifice at different points in our lives, like when one partner is in law school. But somewhere along the line, the lack of happiness of the other partner must be addressed.</p>
<p>I was the partner with the 60-hour workweek, with a husband who was a lot more flexible and frequently home. He got to make the friends and be the participant in a way that I wanted to and couldn’t because of his difficulties. He added great value to the kids’ lives, but as I said earlier, now that the kids are grown, having him home relaxing, on the golf course when the weather permits, gardening, socializing, is really problematic when I have never gotten the chance to scale back. For me, as a human being, that doesn’t add value to my post-parenting life. In fact, it adds stress, resentment and loneliness. I deserve more than that.</p>
He is suggesting I retire when he does in 7 years, which I won’t do. But right now his workweek is on average 20+ hours a week less than mine. He could consider hiring a lawn service so that the yard work doesn’t have to be done during the weekends, he could consider socializing less when I am at work and more with me. He could consider saving some of his recreation activities to do with me instead of while I am at work and being exhausted when I come home. He could consider working toward getting a smaller home with an easier commute when the kids really are out of the house. That is a biggie for me. I don’t want to have to take care of a huge, empty house and yard anymore. A nice condo or townhouse with no yardwork (and NO private pool) would change my life. We have had the house/yard/pool for decades, it seems like an incredibly fair compromise to work toward a lifestyle with less work. However he loves the pool, just loves it, and finds outsourcing yardwork somehow unmanly, which means that on the weekends he does yardwork while I cook and clean and do laundry. Then I’m back to work and he has lots of free time during the week, which I don’t.</p>
<p>The point I am making is that over a long marriage, changes should be made to address the needs and desires of both partners. If one partner is being left out, it doesn’t work.</p>
<p>Hi
Am I allowed to say this?
Please disregard if not, or I suppose someone will tell me please.
This is a question to the original poster.
When do you become aware of your husband’s issues? Are you in agreement before your marriage, or starting family?
It is different in any cultures or upbringings but in general, if all cards in hand are shown and you made your own choice, it is your responsibility to deal with its outcome. As you have said, you could have left him long time ago.
It seems you choose to stay and keep working on it, and your children turned out well. It is solely about your feelings, not your children’s nor husband’s, now hurting with regret (?) or remorse (?) that you could not spend time with your children as much as you’d wished.
I am also concerned that if your husband and children are aware of your mentioning his rather sensitive issues. I have followed here only few month but already have ideas where you are located and what you do for living. I do not think it is a good idea to speak about personal facts too much. Am I wrong here? </p>
<p>For the lighter note, this is what the book author said about dating, even with said football captain, girls should go out and have many experiences before picking her life partner. </p>
<p>“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys,” “But do not marry them.”</p>
<p>Again, if the author is raised in different sort of household she was not allowed to do that. Here might be the cause of her failed first marriage, which have been omitted from the book. She was able and allowed to divorce him, this is yet another merit of her.</p>
<p>You asked “am I allowed to say this” and I was saying that I know your intentions are good, so of course you are allowed to say this. I am not sure what questions you asked. You made some good points, but I didn’t really see questions other than rhetorical.</p>
<p>Edited to add: Oh I see, at the top. I was a little lost.</p>
<p>I always knew that I would have to work. I just didn’t understand that it would be so hard or that I would never have a break. I don’t regret working and being financially secure. I am glad my kids had an involved father. I would like to make changes to our marriage once the kids are out of the house. Many families do that. Please don’t read more into it than it is or make assumptions that might not quite be right. Different phases of life require different accommodations, and as I said earlier, my husband totally gets that. We just haven’t figured out the details yet. But, as I also said, dreaming together is magic for a marriage.</p>
<p>I do agree the tuning has to be done all along. I also think Sandberg runs the risk of the same feelings when her kids are older. And I know the deep conflict between the job satisfaction and the feeling that one is utterly spent. </p>
<p>But I think many men traditionally go thru/went thru this, hit a point where the sacrifices smacked them in the face. And here’s Sandberg saying, if women don’t pursue the same, it’s out of fear, etc. That’s not allowing for alternate dreams.</p>