I’m deep into a negotiation (fight?) between my wife and D25. D is adamantly opposed to going to confirmation class, which our church does in 8th grade. We are Methodist, although that isn’t really important information to the issue at hand. We aren’t particularly religious, but the older 3 kids all went through confirmation. We go to church on Christmas, Easter and occasionally otherwise. We have not gone at all since Covid.
W has until about 30 minutes ago, been equally dug in that D be confirmed. They have changed the requirements since the older kids went through, she would have 15 evening sessions and 15 Sunday services, plus a couple other requirements. We are questioning how rigorously mask wearing will be enforced through all of it. Between the mask concerns and the 60 hours or so of requirements (double what it used to be) W is ok with looking into alternatives.
W offered that if I can give her some curriculum and have her do some research on her own and present it to us, she is willing to let D forgo the confirmation class. D is begrudgingly agreeing.
D is a pretty hard core Agnostic/Athiest and is pretty confident that all of the world religions are just made up. I wish I had the certainity of being 14.
What I am looking for:
A book would be fine, but also online resources or even just an outline would work too. Kind of a “comparative religions” class appropriate for 8th grade. W is ok with it being more of an academic overview, without a proselytizing POV. She just wants her to have some basic religious education and awareness. D will be much more open if I can come up with a broad overview, maybe covering Hindu, Buddism, Islam, Judaism, Catholic & Protestant.
No recommendations offhand, but I am glad you are taking this so seriously.
We encountered something similar with our D who was/is an atheist. She did one year of confirmation (8th grade?) and then the next year, really resisted and said she did not want to continue. She gave us some good arguments, she had gone thru years of Sunday school so we were satisfied that she had a good base of knowledge.
We thought that forcing her to go was a sure-fire way to turn her off religion even more. Our pastor agreed that it was fine to let her drop out.
She is still an atheist but I feel like we lived our values in exposing her to religion (and not just ours, she has been to catholic Mass and Jewish bat mitzvahs, etc) It is her life, and I want her to make her own choices.
Adam Hamilton, a Methodist minister, has a book/video series called Christianity and World Religions that I used with an adult church school class. I don’t recall it being overly academic and an 8th grader could probably handle the content. Your church may already have a copy of it or can borrow one.
The Thoughtful Christian is another resource I’ve used - they have downloadable individual studies on Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism, among other topics. Again, aimed at adults but I think an 8th grader could comprehend. Your church may have a subscription to The Thoughtful Christian.
In a previous life I was a Director of Christian Education and those are a couple I recall using.
You may find a book or class through the Unitarian church.
She may want to consider her future on Jeopardy! Tonight all three contestants missed what I thought was a fairly easy question about who said to Isaac that God would provide the lamb for the sacrifice. (Abraham). Religion is important for Jeopardy!
TBH my first choice would be to let it go. But I have been concerned on more than one occasion in the last few months when this topic came up that one of us may find out what really happens when we die. It has gotten a bit ugly. Largely with me playing referee and getting pretty frustrated with both of them, frankly.
Sometimes my humor attempts fail online, and spelling it out takes away the affect. I feel like I shouldn’t have to, but to clearify and prevent this from turning into 4 pages of off topic posts, in reality no one was seriously contemplating causing others physical harm. But W and D have been extremely agitated with each other on this topic.
As W has reflected a bit this evening, she is now thinking something along the lines of D and I having 2 hours 2x a month that we go to a coffee shop and read about/discuss religion.
While I am not particularly interested in going to church in general and with our current pastor in particular, I do enjoy learning about religion. So if I can get D to buy in to this process I think we could actually have some fun with it. She and I are probably in a similar place, although I am less certain that she is. I guess I’m more extremely skeptical than convinced that it is all false.
I feel like it is extremely tough to get unbiased info on religion. What I am trying to find is a source without an agenda. I’m not sure if that is really possible, at least without going to source materials which is a lot deeper than I can get her interested in or that I have time for.
Unitarians might be a good source, I hadn’t thought of that.
I had a pretty good Biblical background, and certainly could have answered that question, along with many more obscure ones, 30 years ago, probably while able to at least get you to roughly the right part of the Bible to read about it. Not so much anymore.
On more than one occasion I tried to get through the Bible. First to better understand my faith, then more as an exercise to understand where others were coming from. But parts of the Old Testament are a slog to get through. I should have done it with some study guide or as part of a group, but I just tried unsuccessfully to do it on my own.
I do think having the historical context to go along with the texts is valuable to help with understanding, which is probably why I struggled just trying to read it on my own in HS, and also why I am looking now for some sort of guide.
This is one our kids read:
My Friends’ Beliefs: A Young Reader’s Guide to World Religions Paperback –
by Hiley H. Ward (more or less high school reading level)
I don’t know this one, author of the Magic Tree House books.
One World, Many Religions
The Ways We Worship
By Mary Pope Osborne
Not particularly relevant to the conversation, but I hate when people use affect and effect interchangably (and incorrectly). That is one of my gramatical pet peeves. Since I have passed my 15 minute grace period, I will now forever be cast with those who can’t tell the difference between affect and effect. In my defense I can tell the difference, I’m just a sloppy proofreader.
Former Unitarian Universalist church school teacher here, if just in the early grades. I have other sorts of faith history as well, but chose UU for my kids as they have well developed curricula for religious education. Though between divorce and working every other weekend, I was forced to give up on the endeavor after a few years, sadly.
UUs do a good job of looking at values, the history of world religions, and exploring the basis as well as fun of various religious festivals. Approaching religion from the perspective of the stories told in various cultures over time and the commonality of human needs reflected in those stories can lead to all sorts of readings, musings, projects and fun. The year I remember most fondly, the curriculum was High Days and Holy days. We celebrated a holiday each week, made food from various cultures, had craft projects and stories from each holiday. It was educational for me as well as the kids.
On a more intellectual plane, look at the writings of Karen Armstrong, who has a rather interesting back story, and has gone on to write books about religious traditions. From the Wikipedia entry “I say that religion isn’t about believing things. It’s about what you do. It’s ethical alchemy. It’s about behaving in a way that changes you, that gives you intimations of holiness and sacredness.” That entry mentions a PBS series on the history of religion that might be worth checking out.
I hope you and your D enjoy this process of discovery together. Heck, make some food associated with various religious traditions, and the whole family will enjoy it.
I was mostly raised in the UU church school experience and would agree with the Armstrong quote. The appreciation of other religions was central, with no judgments or press to follow any one way of thinking. But my experience (as a kid and co-teaching a 2nd grade group for a period,) is that this exposure starts early. By 14, they can be on to other topics, other contexts of life.
Ironically, for DH, going to church and participating in things was central. (The role of ritual played in his academic focus, too.) So many middle school/high school kids do chafe at this. It can take years before we see how their own beliefs follow or morph. It turns out I’m the more spiritual, regardless of whether there or not.
For reasons, we were at another (non-UU) church by 6th grade, mostly the much higher level of community service, though it was also DH’s childhood affiliation. I personally thought it was meaningful the girls went through the confirmation.
It’s also important to know the UUs, themselves, run the range of beliefs. They are a good resource for an open-minded exposure to religion and religions. Not just to learn about them, but (possibly even more important) in our kids starting to form their own later belief systems, whatever they may be.
Part of my D’s UCC confirmation experience was attending different faith services. Wonder if it would be worthwhile to try to do some zoom services?
That said, the most important thing to my D was the sense of community in her confirmation class. Lots of open discussion and questioning, retreats, mission projects, etc… Two students chose not to be confirmed at the end of the process. Our pastor was in full support of their decision and said reaffirming one’s faith was not something to be done lightly. His own wife delayed confirmation until she was an adult.
My niece’s church delayed confirmation this year. No word on when they’ll resume classes or consider the ceremony.
The World’s Religions by Huston Smith is considered to be one of the best books on World Religions.
Huston was a very well respected scholar of Religions and taught at many top universities and had a five part series on PBS devoted to his life and work.
The book is engaging and as I recall, should be readable and appropriate for an eighth grader.
Agree with Momofsenior about community. I know many “religiously observant” adults who do not necessarily believe in God, don’t buy in to many elements of their “faith” but take enormous strength, comfort, inspiration, etc. from their community. So a self-study course is great to fill in the blanks intellectually- but perhaps there’s a youth group (of whatever denomination) in your town that is meeting virtually and doing a group service project? My religious leader started and was the energy behind revitalizing our town’s food pantry once the Covid lay-off’s started. He recognized that there were many “first timer’s”-- people with solid jobs whose paychecks had evaporated-- and weren’t necessarily clued in to the social services networks and services in place, had never filed unemployment, didn’t know how food stamps work, etc. It has really mobilized the teenagers in town-- the format is Covid-safe (so far the distributions and drop-offs have been outside and in open sided tents) and it’s given kids who miss their friends a reason to get out of the house. Who knew food distribution was so labor intensive???
I think finding other kids united around something might be helpful here. Not everyone expresses their beliefs in prayer and validating that for your D might help lower the temperature at home…
There are a lot of coffee-table type books on world religions available online, most with beautiful photos. I have the “Illustrated Encyclopedia of World Religions” edited by Chris Richards, which is a large paperback.
Once your daughter is in college, she can take an intro to religion class if she so chooses.
I can understand that you would let it go. I would too. I think discussion of values is important, but that doesn’t have to happen in the context of confirmation classes. However, I understand there is family disagreement and conflict on this.
Have you considered having a few counseling sessions with your wife on this? It could even be with a pastoral counselor, if that helps.
I am glad you are taking this seriously. Confirmation is not a rite of passage, it is literally confirmation in the faith. If a kid isn’t sure or not ready, he or she shouldn’t be made to do it. I really respect parents and kids who understand this.